Elena Brower: How to Hold Less in Midlife

TUP EP 135

Aransas Savas: [: 00:00:00

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off your first month [: 00:01:00

You can see that over on YouTube because I am in the [00:01:15] same virtual space as Elena Brower, somebody I have admired for so long. Elena, if you don't know her, is. A pretty legendary yoga teacher, but more than that, she's a mom. She's a mentor to so [00:01:30] many. She's a poet, she's an artist. She's the host of the Practice You podcast.

ime, and now her latest book [: 00:01:45

And I often describe women in midlife as juggling 50 plates [00:02:15] simultaneously while trying to balance 14 hats on their heads. And then cursing themselves. The second they drop one or one of them lands, God forbid, and the way they didn't hope or expect. And so this [00:02:30] idea of holding nothing seems maybe too radical.

I'd go for holding less for most of us at this point. That's, that's where

Elena Brower: I'm right now, hold a little less,

Just turn down the volume. A [: 00:02:45

And Elena came in to voice some of the reflections that we had designed, and it was a turning up of a vision. And for those of us who [00:03:30] are making something, especially something that's kind of scary to us, it's full of uncertainty. It feels brave. The scariest part of it oftentimes is co-creating with other people because it feels like.

There is a [: 00:03:45

Elena Brower: How did it go in the end? I never really forgot to follow up.

Aransas SAvas: We were ahead of our time.

f what we were offering felt [: 00:04:15

Elena Brower: Good,

ig commercial offerings, but [: 00:04:30

And help me see that life didn't have to be just climbing a corporate ladder and [00:04:45] life like that. There were other measures of success and there were other ways of living, and you were certainly one of those women who influenced my journey, my path, and my choices today. So thank you, God,

lena Brower: I'm so happy to [: 00:05:00

And gosh, what a blessing it is that we get to come together in ways that have meaning for us as well as many other, you know, women.

oint of the show is to bring [: 00:05:15

[00:05:30] And that is so much of what I learned in that era. Um, so it's just, it's a, a new format for the lessons I began learning there. Given that it's been a couple lifetimes, your first sort of public facing [00:05:45] lifetime was a yoga teacher in New York City. Since then, I feel like you've been down some new expansive roads.

couple of chapters? Chapter [: 00:06:00

Elena Brower: one is creating art painting finally, which gives me so much joy. In New York, I couldn't do that 'cause there wasn't the space. Now I can make bigger work.

ean that physically or both? [: 00:06:15

Elena Brower: and kind of energetically, yeah.

his second year of college. [: 00:06:30

Aransas SAvas: Great. I'm writing that down now on my list of advantages. It's a good one to this scary thing [00:06:45] of saying farewell to my kids as they go to college, but also to the list of advantages of aging.

[: 00:07:00

Elena Brower: well that's one created. There are a few. I don't have to put so much of my thought there. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's kind of a freeing we'll talk when they leave.

Thank you. [: 00:07:15

Aransas SAvas: be there for you.

Elena Brower: Please reach

Aransas SAvas: out. Thank you. I'm gonna need lots of mother mentors in that phase, I think.

and because I did that when [: 00:07:30

Aw, so beautiful. And I really like that piece, actually proud of that. [00:07:45] And that that was, it was nice to just be able to be present

Aransas SAvas: in a deep way. Sounds like you'd readied yourself for

e of the other directions, I [: 00:08:00

Mm-hmm. When I moved here in 2020, I found up Zen Center, started studying online 'cause they were closed for the pandemic. But you know, I'm very much a Zen student [00:08:15] and now a candidate for chaplaincy, although I don't know that I'll go all the way to becoming a formal accredited chaplain. But I'm really glad I've done these two very intense years of study and volunteering.

ared for that. If I do wanna [: 00:08:30

Training my body strength training, my mind strength [00:09:00] overall, and more kind of feeding precisely what I want to feed rather than the schedule of New York. Mm-hmm.

hmm. Fewer commitments, more [: 00:09:15

Does it feel like home? Mm-hmm. Does it feel like art and Santa Fe are

Elena Brower: [: 00:09:30

But when we finally walked to Candy Road, it was many months after we moved here because of COVID. We were just like in our own little. Bubbles, but we did a lot of hiking and when I got to Canyon North, I was like, [00:10:00] oh my God, this place is an art mecca. I didn't actually know that. And then I started to really paint.

upplies of any kind. Really? [: 00:10:15

and now I have a gallery here that is. She features my art maybe once or twice a year, very generously, and has sold some pieces, [00:10:30] and I sell my print online, which is very sweet. Yeah, I'm just, uh, I'm just very thankful to be creating, in general

tunity to invest your energy [: 00:10:45

As opposed to where maybe you feel expected or obligated, how is that linked to your relationship to aging?

Elena Brower: Recently? I'm [: 00:11:00

Ah, what I'm finding is I feel like I have longer days. When I move more slowly. It's so, so paradoxical. But one of my friends, one of my very wise friends, I'm to buy this book recently, the Waste books, gay [00:11:30] Lichtenberg, and I was in the tub. I found this this morning, page 31 from notebook seats. It's 1772.

ome to a more majestic halt. [: 00:11:45

Aransas SAvas: How interesting is that? Yeah.

Place side by side was what you said about the influence of Buddhism in your life. It created a greater sense of trust.

t the one about mistrust and [: 00:12:15

My face, my body, my breath, my everything. Like I, something really shifted. And now I'm just kind of living into that truth of slowness. Still not easy. I still, I work from home. I [00:12:45] have some appointments out and about, but mostly home and I still have trouble slowing down.

miss something, I'll forget [: 00:13:00

What does the, the urgency message sound like for

tation period that I did the [: 00:13:15

So. Do my stop doing my work at five o'clock, go to sleep, rest, walk. You know, I'm still [00:13:45] New York still runs and pumps in my veins.

dancing after a [: 00:14:00

She had won. And someone said in a very well-meaning way, their perception of it, they said, I always loved watching Rosie dance because she danced like no one was watching. And I was like, oh no, actually you missed the whole point. [00:14:15] She danced because everyone was watching and she had grown up with a lot of disdain or attention, and she was somebody who spent her life in the background supporting others.

And yet as she aged and she [: 00:14:30

Good

ine has to do with my sister [: 00:15:00

Aransas SAvas: mm-hmm.

te need for your little girl [: 00:15:30

Nah. Especially when it's something you were trying to take care of for your little girl self. That would just be mean to feel ashamed about that.

if all of us would just stop [: 00:16:00

Mm-hmm. It would be a different world.

e alike and we're different. [: 00:16:15

Elena Brower: a lot more like actually,

Aransas SAvas: so I need to know everything about how to hold less. What do you teach in this?

my, what matters to me, what [: 00:16:30

What does this mean for you? How do you relate [00:16:45] to this, and how would you change things as a result of this understanding about yourself? Hmm. That's what's interesting to me. I think we don't spend time kind of sharing our personal stories, and that was my [00:17:00] intent here. And since you have kids, I would love to know if you would like to know your stable inner atmosphere.

This one is called Seeing What's Compassion or Open into Listening.

Aransas SAvas: [: 00:17:15

Elena Brower: It is urgent. It is urgent. So seeing with compassion is a section [00:17:30] about making the primary priority to see ourselves with empathy.

lent communication learning. [: 00:17:45

Aransas SAvas: next.

Elena Brower: Yeah. I studied with Judith Lasser and this, this whole piece, this whole section, and each section is short.

ou know, maybe a page or two [: 00:18:00

Mm-hmm. Fascinating. Like beautiful, fewer plates for him to juggle. Totally. [00:18:30] Totally. I'm taking care of myself. He doesn't need to do that. This is a section of this module here. C Practice teaches me how to acknowledge my humanity. I'm learning to to observe my discomfort and offer myself [00:18:45] empathy. Pairing this with my nascent experiences and sitting zazen helps.

, I can make an observation, [: 00:19:00

He just needs me to like be a solid, steady presence in the car. Whether he's having a great mood or a really shitty one. So that section is really cool.

Aransas SAvas: And you

Elena Brower: are the

eah. You need that too. That [: 00:19:30

Elena Brower: Yeah. I stopped needing to be somehow like in perfect connection on this car ride today, and I'm just driving him to school.

. Yeah. It's [: 00:19:45

Aransas SAvas: And I felt like I have used NVC with my clients and we've never talked about it on this podcast.

or folks as an introduction? [: 00:20:15

Elena Brower: Yeah. So Judith Hanson Lasser is my teacher of NBC. Her primary and first priority is learning how to give empathy to ourselves, which is really sweet. Mm-hmm. Four steps to that. I just went over that [00:20:30] loosely, but observation.

red facts snapshot picture. [: 00:20:45

We're not met. And before we get into any communication with another human at all, it's how human of me to feel this way and the whole thing happens internally. That's something I'm saying out loud. [00:21:15] Suddenly what I thought I needed from somebody else, see me, knowledge me, feel for me, become something I can give to myself.

er me when I can do this. So [: 00:21:30

My need for kindness and respect [00:22:00] and mutuality, those needs weren't met. And my request is that the next time you're feeling this way, that you either say nothing. Or let me know that you're feeling this way so that I can [00:22:15] just not speak and let you have your mm. These words, these exact words have been said several times and now he is so respectful and totally gets it.

ime, he'll be like, mom, I'm [: 00:22:30

Aransas SAvas: Mm, that's cool. Totally cool. Yeah. I think so often the tension with kids is that we want them to talk when we want them to talk and to not talk when we want them to not talk. The [00:22:45] desire for control is at odds with their desire for agency and their need in the moment.

creating a relationship with [: 00:23:00

Elena Brower: Beautiful. The growing tree,

Aransas SAvas: right? Because it's like, there is this sort of like, we, we imbue them with all this like natural, uh, animalistic quality, and then we're just like, we are robots.

We must never make mistakes. [: 00:23:30

Elena Brower: With a heart here.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah.

eelings we're having, and we [: 00:23:45

Mm-hmm. Particularly people closest to us. So to have those lists, I mean, my partner James, resisting as he did for at least a year. [00:24:00] Finally printed it up, the needs and feelings lists. And now when we have any sort of dialogue that feels sticky, he pulls out that damn little laminated my needs for this and this and this.

Were not men and [: 00:24:15

Aransas SAvas: remotely coincide. I [00:24:30] love that. Yeah. My husband and I, we grew up listening to such different music. It's like, I mean, even though we're basically the same age, you would never know it because we were in such different musical worlds and our childhoods are very different.

of course, I don't know his [: 00:24:45

Elena Brower: It's a big piece of carrying less, sort of fewer grudges, less [00:25:15] ranker anxiety, such a good word, ranker, fewer sort of debts. And by that I mean people owing me. Something that's something I've [00:25:30] let go a lot of nobody owes me anything. And there's some stories of my mom and my grandmother and the, the stories that we sort of take for granted that they're actually really deep, rich stories in our lives.

We forget that that [: 00:25:45

Kind of the healing of it. Healing. Mm-hmm. And that's what this book has shown me. [00:26:30] It's like it's kind of dipping my toe into a few of these healings that I really needed. There are deeper ones to come. I know this, I know it to be true.

answer because it reminds me [: 00:26:45

No, we all benefit. I mean, everybody could write a memoir, and I've heard it said that everyone should write a memoir at some point, even if no one else reads it. But we all have stories [00:27:00] and we all carry them. And so I think what you're saying is the act of sharing them, even with just a piece of paper, acknowledges them and it, it's almost the same process as an nonviolent communication and that it brings it out into the light and it says, oh [00:27:15] look.

t a human. Human. Beautiful. [: 00:27:30

Elena Brower: I very, what's the word?

put myself down, but. It was [: 00:27:45

And that's what gave rise to, to what this is now the thing. And [00:28:15] actually the truth is, it was similar to the collection of poetry, which I still love and believe in. None of these sections were done until there was a little tear forming in the corner of my eye, you know? Then it was done. Mm-hmm. [00:28:30] Not easy.

Took literally t twice as long to get this book out as it would

Aransas SAvas: have. And so when you talk about that tier, you mean that you had moved beyond the comfortable truth? The truth. The truth.

ena Brower: The truth. Yeah. [: 00:28:45

Aransas SAvas: So of the stories you told, which was the scariest and how do you feel now having told it?[00:29:00]

g action Waves of listening. [: 00:29:15

And Christmas evening, he and his sister would go down to the trash room and basically garbage pick the [00:29:30] toys that the wealthier kids had thrown out so that they could replace them with their new toys. And he is now writing a memoir too, because there are so many stories in this human and they're so harrowing.

f them. That one was painful [: 00:29:45

I was just like, what? What fresh hell is this? [00:30:15] I gotta go to my room. This is not making any cognitive sense at all, ever. There was all dissonance and I had to compartmentalize a lot.

Aransas SAvas: What was it like to get those stories outta you?

Elena Brower: It was weird. [: 00:30:30

And that was as good a place to start as any. Mm-hmm. And nobody's, everything is anonymized and you know, nobody is [00:30:45] denigrated in any way. It was just facts like this is how it was going and this is what I felt and this is how I coped with it. And I know that it's universal. 'cause everyone I know who's read the book is like, oh my God.[00:31:00]

m-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of course, we [: 00:31:15

And pretend it was this other way. [00:31:30] Right?

Aransas SAvas: All of us.

Elena Brower: Most of us, not all,

s a teacher or a parent or a [: 00:31:45

This idea that somebody could be consistent.

Elena Brower: Yeah, it's [: 00:32:00

Aransas SAvas: Mm-hmm. So you are 55 I think.

Elena Brower: Yep.

and dreams for the next few [: 00:32:30

Elena Brower: question. I really just hope to keep on writing and keep taking other things off my plate. It's not an easy puzzle, but I'm, I'm working

slowly. I wrote a piece for [: 00:32:45

Keeps coming up in conversation and I called it SOG as my KPI. And it was an acknowledgement [00:33:00] that I really am consciously and subconsciously judging the quality of my life by how much time I'm spending in my space of genius and how much time I'm spending in bullshit. That doesn't matter to me. Yeah, yeah.

That's a very good, a very [: 00:33:15

Elena Brower: totally

Aransas SAvas: expression channeling.

Elena Brower: [: 00:33:30

There's a third edition coming. The totes came. And now I feel like, so it's so much fun. I'm gonna take [00:33:45] pictures for the website and then suddenly it, it dawns on me. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna be doing a lot of shipping. Oh yeah. That doesn't sound fun. Right. So I have some friends who are kids who I think will do that for me.

But [: 00:34:00

Aransas SAvas: out of the busy. Mm-hmm. And I think so often we do that stuff because we're like, oh, it'll be too hard to offload it to someone else, or it will be [00:34:15] too costly. And ultimately, I think it's more costly on all fronts to do this stuff.

nominates another woman who [: 00:34:30

Elena Brower: Bogart. She's a really good friend of mine, one of my best, one of the first ones I would reach out to. She's a yoga teacher, but much more than that. Her most recent body of work has [00:34:45] to do with regulating the nervous system via both physical practices and meditative practices.

and A-L-L-B-O-G-A-D. Just an [: 00:35:00

Aransas SAvas: Yeah, I'd love to talk to her. She's great. We also, as Uplifters, to your point, love to uplift [00:35:15] other uplifters. So how can we support you getting your work into the world right now, Elena?

It's goodness knows. We could all stand to hold this. Yeah.

a Brower: It's all I know is [: 00:35:30

[00:35:45] that's

Aransas SAvas: becoming a bit of a filter there.

Elena Brower: It's a bit of a filter. Yeah. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: It was really great to see you.

Elena Brower: Oh, so much love.

Aransas SAvas: Thank you for being here with us today.

nd thank you for sharing the [: 00:36:00

Aransas SAvas: Oh, lovely. Yes, yes. I'll [00:36:15] definitely be there

ust went on to do it and I'm [: 00:36:30

Aransas SAvas: Okay, great. Yeah. Well I'll go look at that right now and we'll be sure to share the tour schedule in the show notes so that other folks can find you and go read this book and then we'll all talk to each other about it.

[: 00:36:45

So I look forward to carving that out. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Uplifters [00:37:15] podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes. Please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation over@theuplifterspodcast.com. Head over to Spotify, apple [00:37:30] podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

And like, follow and rate our show. It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mmm.

Music: [: 00:37:45

With that, all hindsight, bring the sun to twilight. Lift you up.[00:38:15]

Lift you up, ball,

lift you up,

lift you up.[: 00:38:30

Lift you up.

Lift you[: 00:38:45

lift.

he pre-course, right? Uhhuh. [: 00:39:00