Candace Thompson-Zachery: How Six Certifications and One Big Pivot Led a Dance Executive to Menopause Coaching at 40

Aransas Savas: [: 00:00:00

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off your first month [: 00:01:00

Nomination: One of my really good friends, Candace, because she puts like the multi and multifaceted.

[: 00:01:15

Sometimes I don't even know she genuinely believes in me. [00:01:45]

in the world. This week I am [: 00:02:00

Courage, transition, change, embracing our obstacles and, and using them as leverage into our dream making. Today you're gonna meet [00:02:15] Candace Thompson Zachery. She was nominated for the show by Charisma J, who you met on an earlier episode, who was also wildly inspiring and wonderful, and with whom I formed just most beautiful friendship after meeting her [00:02:30] on the podcast, and so it's extra special to get to talk to the woman who inspires her.

tly nonprofits. And creating [: 00:02:45

Somebody whose life was deeply influenced by my grandmother. I'm so moved that she named her practice after her grandmother Merle. And after being the executive director of [00:03:30] Dance NYC, founder of the Dance Caribbean Collective, she has now built a new chapter. My goal in this for all of us, is to really understand her mindset through that shift.[00:03:45]

antly. So Candace, thank you [: 00:04:00

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Thank you and for that amazing introduction. I so appreciate it.

Aransas Savas: You make [: 00:04:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Totally. I have been.

you and giving you energy in [: 00:04:30

Candace Thompson-Zachery: what I would say was driving me wasn't a curiosity about how the arts ecosystem worked in New York City.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

in New York. And so I moved [: 00:04:45

And then once I graduated. Like every other dance graduate, or most of them, you're [00:05:15] looking for work. You're like, where can I be nurtured? Where can I find opportunity? And so that 20 years is really my journey through the arts ecosystem also because it started with me as a student. A [00:05:30] pre-professional and ended with me as the co-executive director at this dance service organization that I helped to run.

it's also what strengthened [: 00:05:45

The dancer who had dancer 5, 6, 7, 8, [00:06:00] 10 jobs to be able to pursue a life where she could take contract dance work. I had been an arts administrator on the side for independent choreographers and then for friends and then in festival [00:06:15] management. So I had played a lot of roles, and then I founded my own thing, and then I had to figure out how to get funding, how to attract people to the mission, how to get people to volunteer.

How to put on a three day festival on 20,000. So I did that.

Music: Amazing.

ndace Thompson-Zachery: That [: 00:06:30

It really was about how do all of the systems work? Why is it so hard? Like, can I figure out what are the levers that people are pulling? What are the barriers that [00:07:00] they're running into? Why is it so hard to get your work up on a stage? Why is it so hard to get funding for what you're doing? Why is it so hard to earn a living wage for what we do?

t driver was just curiosity. [: 00:07:15

Aransas Savas: I love that. I think for a lot of us, our careers are evolutions and we can look back [00:07:30] and see them and be like, all that illogical stuff actually sort of makes sense.

readiness, our credibility, [: 00:07:45

Here's all the things I did that are actually making me uniquely well positioned to do the next thing. Do you notice either or both of those tendencies strongly in yourself?

one of the things that I've [: 00:08:15

Like I reflect on those moments because at 40 your sense of time is different, right? Three years, that's nothing. But at 33 years feels like, oh my God, like going into the void, right? And [00:08:45] so. I have reflected on those small moments where I've chosen X instead of Y because of feeling daunted by how much something would take, or that I wasn't ready for something.

Mm. I [: 00:09:00

It's too daunting. I could never kind of thing. I think two things also helped to shift [00:09:30] me out of that, and I'm, I've heard it in other people's stories, which is one, becoming a mom. It's kind of like Uhhuh. The kid is staring at you in the face. They're like, listen, we gotta make this work. I'm hungry.

ol? Who's gonna take care of [: 00:09:45

So I'd say that's one. And then two, just like with anything with time, you just realize, oh, right, I'm 37. Wait, I have career pivoted, right? Like I went from [00:10:15] being a freelance dancer to, to being a studio manager. Oh, I did pivot. I went from being mostly a personal trainer to doing more arts administrator work.

see your ability to overcome [: 00:10:30

Time doesn't feel so large and gargantuan. Right? So if you're embarking on something [00:11:00] that is gonna take five years to build, it's just five years. So it changes, to me at least. It changes what readiness feels like because you have five years to get it done. Done. If you're not ready, you'll [00:11:15] get ready.

You'll be ready in five years doing anything for five years, you're gonna get better at it.

Aransas Savas: That's so true. And the time is gonna pass anyway.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah.

g because it's a comfortable [: 00:11:30

Candace Thompson-Zachery: or you're afraid of what might happen or you're afraid of.

s stuck in where we are and, [: 00:11:45

Aransas Savas: I love that. And by time here specifically, you mean?

r of years of living. Right. [: 00:12:00

Better experimenters and explorers, and that curious learner mindset actually starts to kind of explode during [00:12:30] this chapter if we allow spaces for ourselves to get curious about things we're actually interested in. And so you just turned 40 as you are entering this new chapter [00:12:45] and making this.

chedule, you know where your [: 00:13:00

You either wade in or jump in head first.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Lots of different things. Where do we begin? I did work with a career coach.

Aransas Savas: Smart.

ndace Thompson-Zachery: Just [: 00:13:30

In the last two years, I've gotten like six new certifications, like

Music: Wow.

asm, the National Academy of [: 00:14:00

I became a Clifton strengths coach. I became a breath [00:14:15] coach, coach, so I really lean into learning. Oh my gosh. And one thing kind of leads you to the next thing. It's like, uh, you get one layer and then I'm like, this layer has opened up this horizon. Now I wanna go in this direction. And so I kind of [00:14:30] kept doing that as time went on right as my building blocks towards what could be next.

were the people who, when I [: 00:14:45

Aransas Savas: Yeah,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: you, you've, you've done more with less. Yes you can.

Aransas Savas: And yay, you first asking that question.

uick moment, because I think [: 00:15:00

Yes. You can do anything. And that helped you probably shift that conversation with yourself.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah, seeing them out loud. Yeah. Because then they reduce their power.

Aransas Savas: Yes.

Zachery: Yeah, they're real. [: 00:15:30

Aransas Savas: Let them out in the open. Let's see if they're true.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Totally. The other thing I would say is that I hedge my bets, right?

looking for another job. So [: 00:15:45

I think the other big like sense of [00:16:00] insurance I had was my network. I was like, there's so many people that I'm in relationship with. There's so many people that I've supported. I'm like, work will find me. I truly believe that work will find me. And [00:16:15] so that was also the other insurance. I'm like, there's so many people who know and have worked with me and know what I'm capable of.

They will be my advocates.

have a tendency to do is to [: 00:16:30

You looked at, okay, what do I have [00:17:00] and how do I invest that to give myself that confidence?

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah, correct. Correct.

it feels like it was really [: 00:17:15

And it becomes a bit of a delay tactic. Mm. A way of [00:17:30] postponing, taking risk. Yep. Or being brave and stepping into what we want because we step in, there's a chance that we might be rejected, we might be unsuccessful. What made it feel safe enough to take action?

g with really kind of helped [: 00:17:45

When I started, started, I like relaunched my wellness coaching, uh, at the top of 24. She was just like, you need to just get started. You need to start. She's like, it doesn't matter. Just get started. Even if you feel like there's more [00:18:00] information that you need, you have a hundred times more information than the person who needs you.

Just get started.

Aransas Savas: That's great advice.

my perennial beta tester. So [: 00:18:15

Aransas Savas: I love her.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Right. So, yeah. You know, it's like I just started putting things in practice, started putting it in practice.

[: 00:18:30

Music: Mm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: So,

Music: mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: It could feel daunting.

to do for the certifications [: 00:19:00

And so that feedback loop kind of starts to get strengthened. But you do have to, to your point, you do have to get started in some fashion and not use the study [00:19:30] as a delayed tactic.

Aransas Savas: Uhhuh, and it's there is where you start to understand the connective tissue. As well.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah.

hat that meant in that other [: 00:19:45

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Totally, totally.

ry, I think it can feel like [: 00:20:00

And feeling the exhaustion of having done them. [00:20:15]

ualize where you wanna be or [: 00:20:30

Aransas Savas: interesting

Candace Thompson-Zachery: means to also not develop a sense of the future or develop hope for the future.

[: 00:20:45

Aransas Savas: That's fascinating. I would never have put those together, but I totally see it now that you say it. And I like, I just have so much evidence in my own life and my own work. That getting really clear about what we want is extremely [00:21:00] energizing and extremely activating, and it's like, I don't know, how am I gonna get from here to Australia without a map?

up on the other side of the [: 00:21:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: correct.

: And analysis paralysis and [: 00:21:30

That wear us out. Whereas visioning energizes us and actually replaces energy that is depleted. Right. By worrying, I think though you [00:21:45] actually are demonstrating another way of doing that that is incredibly powerful, which is you were talking about. Developing yearning. Mm-hmm. And what a delicious word that is, number one.

And what a delicious [: 00:22:00

Instead of sort of imagining that I'm gonna go live it and discover what's true [00:22:30] for me, and then design for what's true for me.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah, no, that's,

Aransas Savas: that's really powerful.

takes the, to your point, it [: 00:22:45

And for people who are taking this in, I know that sounds like some woo woo [00:23:00] stuff. Like, what do you mean? And like, if you're in a burnt out exhaust seat, you're, you can't even imagine what that feels like. But it is possible. It's possible,

Aransas Savas: but probably not if we're just sitting around thinking about it.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: [: 00:23:15

Aransas Savas: I think we have to go into experience.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah, it's the and

Aransas Savas: feel

om failing in some areas and [: 00:23:30

And [00:23:45] again, like by doing you, you automatically lower it because you have evidence.

s you've been able to figure [: 00:24:00

I've never had all the data. No one's ever had all the data and walk in and say, but I'm gonna figure it out. And I know that I can.

pson-Zachery: Yep. The other [: 00:24:15

I had all the jobs. And so the other [00:24:30] insurance that I had was that if none of this works out, I can go back to hustling, like. That is always available, I believe, in my ability to hustle. So I think that's the other thing. I was not afraid of my own hard work.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. [: 00:24:45

We have done some things, and we know that we can figure things out. Like if we have survived to [00:25:00] this point, again, we have a wide body of evidence that. We will figure it out that there is not just a single road, but that we constantly have choices available to us. You just turned 40, as you mentioned, [00:25:15] and I think there are a lot of belief systems out there about what we're capable of in the second half of our lives, and so I'm curious for [00:25:30] you how you would describe.

Your belief system about the second half of your life in the first half of your life and what it looks like now?

company right outta college, [: 00:25:45

Like, like that blew my mind [00:26:00] because I dunno what ha, like in my mind I had this sense that like, I'll dance alone like 28, 29 and then you know, I'll get married and have a kid and be regular. Now I was doing nothing to like [00:26:15] further that actual dream, but like in my mind it was some kind of cutoff. At 28, something else would happen.

ion of what old was. Mm-hmm. [: 00:26:30

Like our grandmothers were everything in our lives. So I don't think I ever necessarily had a fear of growing old. It's more that I. You know, I just couldn't see it yet because you're so young. Mm-hmm. You're just like, that's like something that'll [00:27:00] happen like eons from now. But I will say as I got later in my thirties and like, I started to go gray.

hair? I'm like, why would I, [: 00:27:15

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: So please know how old I'm,

was, was thinking about that [: 00:27:30

Maybe it was because I was raised with my grandmother and my great-grandmother. My great-grandmother [00:27:45] were all very present in my life growing up, and they were all amazing and inspiring and adventurous and brave. And I always thought being older was the goal, right? So [00:28:00] you know that like 13-year-old thing that you feel, you're just like, I can't wait to grow up vibe.

just thought it gave me more [: 00:28:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah. Just like, I earned these things.

s: Yeah. Thank you very much.[: 00:28:30

I know some things,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: how I think about it now is more just like. One about, back to this thing about time

Aransas Savas: Uhhuh,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: I am in a hurry, in a sense,

Aransas Savas: Uhhuh,

t like, I have things to do, [: 00:28:45

But then I, it also feel like [00:29:00] how I'm envisioning it right now is like I have a pretty steep hill to climb. And at some point I'm gonna enjoy the plateau for a bit and then I'll figure out what's next.

Music: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

o that's how I see it. And I [: 00:29:15

It's not that I don't, and you know, perimenopause is a whole other story, but you also do [00:29:30] feel this sense of calm. Because you're re, you have a much clearer or deeper relationship with yourself, like you're not afraid of yourself anymore.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. [: 00:29:45

And one of them of [00:30:00] course is that growth mindset that we talked about. Another is a, a stronger sense of self. What else would you say are the advantages?

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah.

Aransas Savas: I guess I should add evidence for sure. Right.

er sense of self really then [: 00:30:15

Your confidence is less threatened by people challenging you, people throwing obstacles in your way, people doubting you, like those [00:30:30] things no longer take up so much space or have so much weight anymore, like you put them in their correct perspective. So. It gives you a sense of, yeah, there's like, there's life on the other side of a [00:30:45] conflict.

that's one of the benefits. [: 00:31:00

Self-consciousness around.

Nomination: Mm-hmm.

ry: How people perceive you. [: 00:31:15

Aransas Savas: Right.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Which means that,

Aransas Savas: do you believe that,

chery: that you have no more [: 00:31:30

Aransas Savas: Yeah,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: partially. Yeah. Partially.

Aransas Savas: Yeah.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: I, again, I think you put things in their correct perspectives. So you don't have Fs, you do have them, but you just give them out, sparing me.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. You

Candace Thompson-Zachery: give them out, sparing me.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

on-Zachery: And when you do, [: 00:31:45

Aransas Savas: not everybody,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: when you do, it's a message. It's a signal. It's like, huh, that touched a nerve.

at, so yeah, it's like your, [: 00:32:00

Music: mm-hmm.

ery: Very vulnerable, right? [: 00:32:15

What would people say? Oh, who does she think? She's like, but I also, I felt it got to a point where I felt I was doing my community, my network, my commun my people around [00:32:30] me a disservice by not showing them all of me.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: I wasn't giving them good information to base their interactions with me on

Aransas Savas: their perception.

They weren't receiving the whole picture.

e Thompson-Zachery: Correct. [: 00:32:45

Aransas Savas: Yeah. When did you think you would feel like an adult?

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Like at 23 that Marco was 28. And then in my late twenties, I think the Marco was like 35.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: And then after 35 I stopped.

Aransas Savas: So roughly every five years.

, I stopped trying [: 00:33:00

There is no age. We just all it out forever.

answers or be done growing. [: 00:33:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Number one, it's never too late. [00:33:45] It's never too late to make a decision that is in alignment with your true self. Mm sure. Maybe if you wanted to be an Olympian and you're [00:34:00] 75, maybe that's not an option for you anymore, but maybe there's another Olympics you could join, I dunno.

Music: Mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: So, yes, being older does.

ings less realistic, but the [: 00:34:15

Music: Mm-hmm.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: So for instance, if your goal, if you are like, oh my God, I always really wanted to be an singer, and you're like 65.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

u from going to an open mic? [: 00:34:30

Probably.

Aransas Savas: Yeah. And you're certainly a lot closer to that Grammy. By singing, by then sitting around thinking about singing.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Correct.

Aransas Savas: You're [: 00:34:45

Candace Thompson-Zachery: And then maybe, yeah. By performing at the community fair and the open mic, you realize that actually I don't care about the Grammy.

What I really care about is being in community with people who see me in my true essence.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. [: 00:35:00

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Maybe you actually realize that what you like is the songwriting part of. Singing and not the actual delivery. You know what I mean? There's also like what you learn on the journey to the thing that you think you want versus the thing,

Aransas Savas: right?

It's that idea of [: 00:35:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah. Yes.

Aransas Savas: What is the feeling you most yearn for in your work now that you have been so many places and tried so many things?

e Thompson-Zachery: Two, two [: 00:35:30

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

all the pieces just kind of [: 00:35:45

Aransas Savas: you are such a learner.

thing is to see it in other [: 00:36:00

Right? Like that moment when their eyes light up is what is the other yearning that I have. And so it makes the things that I have to do to prepare for that easier.

Aransas Savas: Mm. [: 00:36:30

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yep.

Aransas Savas: This has been so beautiful, Candace. I'm so grateful that we got to talk and to see where your journey takes you next at 40.

There are [: 00:36:45

Candace Thompson-Zachery: my friend Sydney Mosley, who is my New York bestie, and also a dancer, choreographer, consummate artist in the world. I danced with her [00:37:15] company for a number of years in her building phase, and it's also one of the places where I rehearsed my leadership because at some point I was the associate director.

inspires me just because of [: 00:37:30

Aransas Savas: Mm. [00:37:45] We have so much to learn from her.

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Oh, yes.

Aransas Savas: All of us. That that is in so many ways, the hardest part. What do we say no to in order to say yes.

So as Uplifters Candace, we [: 00:38:00

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Thank you so much for that offer. You can support me by finding me on Instagram. Can dance create?

Aransas Savas: Which [: 00:38:15

You can dance.

I was like, why? I keep it, [: 00:38:30

Aransas Savas: why not?

Candace Thompson-Zachery: So you could follow me on Instagram where I share a lot of my thoughts on leadership, on wellness, on the work that I do, running programs and nonprofits and you can also.

to talk to me to think about [: 00:38:45

In the sense all encompassing, right? Because it's about how to incorporate movement. How to incorporate and how to corporate nutrition and lifestyle [00:39:15] changes, how to incorporate a positive mindset. So looking at the full gamut of the person to help them build a sustainable life and lifestyle that gives them the wellness that they wanna experience.

t also includes things like. [: 00:39:30

So it's how do you tap into the strengths that you have. To build your leadership skills. And I feel like artists are leaders because they have to lead a vision [00:40:00] and bring it into the world and work with collaborators and work with performers. So that is a form of leadership that's often under considered.

their leadership approach is [: 00:40:15

Aransas Savas: Yes, and those are so. Interconnected, aren't they? Yep,

Candace Thompson-Zachery: it is. And then the menopause aspect is within any of that.

Right? Because [: 00:40:30

So. I'm glad that I have that information to share with people at this point in their lives.

advantage as you help people [: 00:41:00

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Yeah, totally.

Aransas Savas: Well, I'm so glad we met.

ee you somewhere in Brooklyn [: 00:41:15

Candace Thompson-Zachery: Hey,

Podcast. If you're getting a [: 00:41:30

Head over to Spotify, apple Podcast or wherever you [00:41:45] get your podcast. And like, follow and rate our show. It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mm. Big love [00:42:00]

Music: painted water sunshine with Rosemary Anton. Dwelling. Not perplexing though.

for be around best love for [: 00:42:15

[00:42:30] Lift you up.

Lift you up. Whoa. Lift you up.

Lift you up.[: 00:42:45

Lift you

lift.[: 00:43:00

Um, beautiful. I cried. It's that little thing you did with your voice, right? In the pre-course, right? Uhhuh. Uhhuh. I was like, [00:43:15]

Aransas Savas: mommy,

Music: quiet

Aransas Savas: mommy. Stop crying. You're disturbing the peace.