WABC News’ Sandra Bookman is Not an Icon

TUP EP 105

Aransas Savas: [: 00:00:00

It took place live on stage at our second annual Uplifters live event [00:00:30] in New York City, surrounded by so many incredible uplifters all there to lift each other up, to have deep, meaningful conversations and to explore. How to get and stay [00:00:45] courageous in this weird wild world that we're living in. Friends, we had women from ages 13 to 73 with a surprise guest, none other than Sandra Bookman.

I [: 00:01:00

Sandra Bookman: Let's first dispel the icon and legend thing. I work [00:01:30] with some legends, but I'm not one of them.

Aransas Savas: I mean, let's talk then about how you would define that.

we don't last long. Mm-hmm. [: 00:01:45

So stint icon. Yeah. Okay. We had a conversation about this in the newsroom, believe it or not, yesterday. Because I was [00:02:00] writing a, I was reading a copy, editing a script I had to read, and I said to my co-anchor, why the hell do they keep writing icon? You know? No, and the person was important, so I won't say who it was, but I said, it's not, I wouldn't call her an icon.

They're people, you [: 00:02:15

Yeah, I know. I'm, I think that's sensitive.

Aransas Savas: No, I like where you're going with that because to me what it says is that it is. A role that we can all play.

Sandra Bookman: Yeah. But [: 00:02:45

Like, I'm fantastic. I'm a supermodel. I'd love for somebody to say that about me. Not gonna happen. Me and my five [00:03:00] foot four, probably actually five, three self, we don't need,

Aransas Savas: I think though, in some ways, being a resilient human being. Is even more impressive.

Sandra Bookman: Yeah. The truth of the matter is I think that most of us are resilient.

The thing is, you [: 00:03:15

So you, you know, you get credit for things that you don't really deserve credit for because people just sort of, God, she's been there a long time, man. She's working hard. God, she did all the shows today and [00:03:45] that's true. Uh, but I'm no more resilient than the woman who. You know somebody else that's working at the station, you don't see her on air, but she's there every day doing her job.

kids and she's helping with [: 00:04:00

No, I mean. That's every single day. I don't do any of that 'cause [00:04:15] it's just me and my shoes. And they do not too, I do have a husband now, but me and my shoes. So I don't, you know, I don't see myself as being much more resilient than probably most of the people sitting in this room. 'cause everybody has their own load to carry.[00:04:30]

Yeah.

Aransas Savas: You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that's such an important and, and beautiful and generous point to make. I just think it's the truth. Like we are the center of the universe as human be. Yeah. Well,

erse. My husband knows that. [: 00:04:45

I don't have children. I have lots of nieces and nephews, but I don't have kids. And I made that decision when I was six. I know that's crazy, right? But it's truth. I [00:05:00] wanted Barbie dolls. I wanted fashion. I didn't want diapers. Work was everything. It just really was everything. 'cause I loved my job. I was so happy to be able to do this thing that I decided I was gonna do as a kid in Texas, in a little [00:05:15] town where we had the streets in my town were dirt roads.

nd the first dream. Was that [: 00:05:30

I don't know, I read that somewhere, or it was in some old 1930s movie, but that was what I had in my head. And [00:05:45] then journalism sort of came into my life. And when I was in high school. A teacher was actually my debate coach. We were very close and you know, I was trying to figure out what am I gonna do? I the acting, I don't think I can.

I can sing, okay, I dance [: 00:06:00

And she said, have you thought about [00:06:15] broadcast journalism? You're a great writer. Because I'd write some of my speeches and debates and competitions I was involved with and. So I went home and I watched Channel 13 in Houston, which is also a Disney station by the way. [00:06:30] And I'm on brand here. And I said, you know what, mom?

a joke. That's what she said [: 00:06:45

Wow. Eventually. Eventually. Wow. [00:07:00]

ed to. Get really pretty and [: 00:07:15

And so there was that fantasy and then there was the [00:07:30] reality of, this is what I'm gonna do. So what did the, I'm gonna make it happen look like,

Sandra Bookman: you know,

Aransas Savas: I

Sandra Bookman: was thinking last night, I was like, what am I gonna talk to them

iced that I tried to do some [: 00:07:45

That's it.

Hometown, everything. That's [: 00:08:00

Mm. Beaumont another small town in Texas was the, my first job, my first TV job. I always say it's like, well, I'm not gonna say you were born in then.

Aransas Savas: Uh, [: 00:08:15

Sandra Bookman: But Beaumont is right on the border between. Texas, Louisiana border, and that was my first, first TV job. So somehow over the years, everybody said, oh, she's from Beaumont.

And I was just like, okay, that's fine. I'm, I'm from Port

Texans down, down the coast, [: 00:08:30

Sandra Bookman: right. On the Gulf. Right, exactly. On the, on the Gulf of

Aransas Savas: Mexico. So now that we've cleared that up, back to how you went from fantasy to reality.

thinking about it last night [: 00:08:45

I'm a sort of a goal oriented person, and it started really early when I was a little girl, and I really don't know where that comes from. My mother's personality was that [00:09:00] if it needed to be done, she was gonna do it and she might complain about it a little bit, but it was gonna get done. She was gonna move on to the next thing.

's just, you know, he's been [: 00:09:15

Mowing the lawn. I mean just always working. So I had that thing I think I got from both of them. And once I got into school, I mean, I'm from the era, you know, as a black woman. I grew up in the [00:09:45] seventies and eighties. So you coming out of that time period when there were so many things that were opening up black people in America.

lled into me and my sisters, [: 00:10:00

It just so I got it in my head that I'm gonna be somebody. It sounds silly [00:10:30] saying it now, but you know, when you're a little kid, it was the inspiration that I needed and so I set goals for myself in school. It just sounds so crazy, but it's the truth. Third grade, I knew there was award in the fifth grade for the best student in my [00:10:45] school, and I was gonna win it.

ol. It was the middle of the [: 00:11:00

And my parents showed up at school if I didn't behave right. Mostly wasn't me as my sisters, [00:11:15] but I saw them and so I knew I won. I know it sounds so crazy, but I did and it, that was like a first goal and then it went from there to junior high school, whether it was running for class president, being a cheerleader.

[: 00:11:30

If I didn't get it was because I didn't do something. I mean, that's just the way my mind worked. I pretty much feel like all the goal, not all of them, but some, most of the goals that were truly important in school [00:12:00] I set for myself and I, it just kept to college. Once I decided I was doing this, I'm doing this, and then sometimes you had to shift gears.

't get it, and I was able to [: 00:12:15

And I mean, cats and dogs is just crazy. Then I gotta the point where I just couldn't live, you know, without her. So that's been really hard to get past [00:12:45] as, as an old woman, but it was my mom. She just was encouraging and you got down about something and she would say, snap out of it. You got more important things to, you know, she just had a way of.

to focus on the next thing. [: 00:13:00

I believe you will get there. Not the billion

taking from your story. One [: 00:13:30

Sandra Bookman: No, I've, I've been really, I'd like to call myself a victim sometimes, but then I just keep it moving.

whine with the best of them, [: 00:13:45

Aransas Savas: I think. I'm a little Irish. I like to tell a long story about it, [00:14:00] but I think that lack of a victim mindset so often comes with a sense of self-empowerment and self-reliance, and an ability to manage what's in front of us, which is the.

I'm taking from you is that [: 00:14:15

Sandra Bookman: No, they don't. Is. Because I, I think I have sort of a, a force of nature. I can make it right. It's probably why I have so many bad relationships as a young woman because I could be in a room [00:14:30] with 20 men. 19 of them are terrific.

e had to be cute though, but [: 00:14:45

Aransas Savas: that part wasn't bad.

Sandra Bookman: No, that part wasn't bad. And inevitably it was a disaster, but I just had this thing, I can fix it. I stopped that though. I'm glad you deserve that maturity.

Yeah.

Aransas Savas: Like look, a [: 00:15:00

Sandra Bookman: Unfortunately, I was able to recognize it when it, you know.

ll, I'll pull outta this, is [: 00:15:15

Music: Mm-hmm.

? Like what, what would that [: 00:15:30

Sandra Bookman: The funny thing is, is that I throw the billion dollars out there. Obviously I'm joking. For me retirement, when I say that, the reason I even mention the money is because it is one of the things that I am struggling with as I worked [00:15:45] toward the last few years of really working, I.

God, and driving us bananas. [: 00:16:00

I talk about them as if they're teenagers, but in the back of my mind, because I'm the oldest, if you hadn't figured that out, I know there's some firstborns in here [00:16:30] and I, I know I'm a classic firstborn. But I feel like I wanna, even when I'm not working, the, the income is steady that I still need to be able to, the thing is, is I know that that's not really my responsibility.

So [: 00:16:45

And I'm like, mm, not yet. Yeah.

ke care of everything. Yeah. [: 00:17:15

Sandra Bookman: know.

Aransas Savas: And

Sandra Bookman: juggle it

Aransas Savas: all. And juggle it. And only be upset when we drop one, and then we'll blame ourselves and be like, what's wrong with you?

Exactly. Yep. [: 00:17:30

Sandra Bookman: You know, I'm, I probably like a lot of [00:17:45] high strong women. I just, you are going, going, going, doing everything, and then like you said, you drop the plate and it's your fault when you're like, are you kidding me?

Mm-hmm.

Music: You

Sandra Bookman: shouldn't have been juggling 15 things

e? Because you were juggling [: 00:18:00

Sandra Bookman: that is a big thing. Keep calm, carry on. As I've gotten older, I just acknowledge that I can't do some things anymore.

I mean, [: 00:18:15

Which I've learned in the last five years, I would say to say no to things because I would say yes to [00:18:45] everything coming my way. Work things. I still say yes to too many work things, but, uh, things associated work, speaking engagements because honestly I feel so lucky to do what I do to work in this [00:19:00] city.

to, to meet the people I've [: 00:19:15

Whatever that is, whether [00:19:30] it's, you know, on the street telling people what's going on, sitting on the set, explaining to people, trying to make it so that you know, they have a real sense of what's happening and understand, I mean, I feel privileged to do that. So my feeling was I [00:19:45] should be saying yes, I have to be giving back and this cost me nothing except.

can't do all that stuff and. [: 00:20:00

Not he ain't 30 young. I, but he's younger than me. We don't judge. No, no, that's, that's a [00:20:15] baby. But he will remind me. What are you doing? And that has been really helpful for me because I know he has my best interest and it's not about controlling me, which he absolutely can't do. I think he's okay with that.

He sees it that I will just [: 00:20:30

Aransas Savas: A of course, [00:20:45] we change throughout the course of our lives and we learn and we grow, but hopefully along the way we learn to show ourselves the grace that we show everyone else.

taking care of other people? [: 00:21:00

And so I have learned over the years to take a minute and stop whatever that is. It just means reading or traveling or saying I'm exercising, but not really. [00:21:15] And I know that's really bad, but you know, not drinking too much 'cause that doesn't solve anything. But just the right about does take the edge off.

I'm just, just Okay. [: 00:21:30

Aransas Savas: Yeah. Finding that balance there in all things. Enough rest, but not too much.

Sandra Bookman: Yeah. Well, there's no such thing as enough rest. Yeah. Not in your business especially. You have what,

hters? I do, but actually I, [: 00:21:45

Sandra Bookman: Well then you, then you must be doing something right?

I

py birthday. Thanks. On your [: 00:22:00

Sandra Bookman: Yeah, well, I, I've not slept well my whole life. I, again, my parents, [00:22:15] my dad sleep two hours.

I can't think. But you will [: 00:22:30

Mm. I know it sounds crazy. I, 'cause I felt I have issues with age. It's my issue, nobody else's. It's [00:22:45] issues with my age. That's it. And so I didn't even wanna talk about, you know, going through menopause, I girlfriends, but I was just basically sucked it up, did what I needed to do, took you know, advice from the doctor and [00:23:00] knew that this too would pass.

And it did.

Aransas Savas: Yeah. And I think too, every time we get to hear somebody say, you're gonna be okay,

eep on living all the things [: 00:23:15

It is, and this is natural. It's not some manmade catastrophe. It's just a natural and it's just, you're just moving from one phase to the [00:23:30] other. You know? Yes, some things do change, but that's life. Yeah. The important thing is that you get on the other side and keep it moving.

Aransas Savas: That's right. And that you embrace what is, instead of trying to hold onto what was,

Sandra Bookman: and it doesn't change who you are.

I think that's an [: 00:23:45

Sarah had a baby. When she was a hunch, I was like, Sarah was in the Bible. You know? It was just was, it was like

basically [: 00:24:15

Aransas Savas: Yeah. I think though we all have that tendency, right? Mm-hmm. To hold onto what was, to hold onto old dreams. And one of the things I think [00:24:30] that we can do for ourselves that is the biggest gift is to say what's right for right now.

you say that? Was that you? [: 00:24:45

Aransas Savas: Yeah. And maybe that's just part of the process. Mm-hmm. Is to have the fire. To get [00:25:00] to the calm. Yeah. This has been really exciting to have Sandra here, hasn't it? I think your job is so interesting in that you really have helped millions of New Yorkers over the last [00:25:15] 27 years navigate some of the toughest moments of our collective existence, a calm presence.

I appreciate that. A voice of wisdom. Voice, I know about the wisdom. That's kind of like the icon

Music: thing. [: 00:25:30

Aransas Savas: Did it your, and you always brought your own unique stamp. To your storytelling, and you've made us feel a little bit safer, a little bit better informed. I'm watching the New Yorkers in the room. Not along, especially those who are old enough to have had [00:25:45] televisions,

and you've helped us all find our way through those moments.

rising for the times, but it [: 00:26:00

Unless you're sitting in traffic on Broadway in Soho and wondering why the hell is [00:26:15] there one lane? What, what is that?

Aransas Savas: I don't know.

e things I loved about being [: 00:26:30

I'm street as a reporter, sit as a reporter. You sit at the anchor desk, which which is great thought. Yeah. And on the street. Thank you. It's how you get to know the city. You report on Frog's [00:26:45] neck or. Bay Ridge or Brownsville or East New York, and if you don't go there, how do you know? I'm not saying I'm an expert on them, but it's important for me to go there to see who people are, [00:27:00] how they live, how the housing is different, find the best sandwich shop.

hat you at least have a half [: 00:27:15

And believe me, I would love to sit on the anchor desk every day with my lipstick on and my hair combed and somebody else doing it. And now I think I've gotten old enough, but [00:27:30] I really loved that. I sincerely. I do miss that sometimes.

ople who had different lived [: 00:27:45

And so much of what scares me about these times, what feels most [00:28:00] alarming, is our lack of curiosity about one another. The assumptions we keep on each other and we, we just make up human beings based on our own imagination. And the movie we saw or the story we heard. Social media. [00:28:15] Right. I mean, I think, and I'm not blaming social media, you're

Sandra Bookman: absolutely right.

e go to a few sources and it [: 00:28:30

What is this? People blood sucking something, movie stars in Hollywood? I, I just, I'm like, but people really believe that. I don't know how that, I still can't understand [00:29:00] how some of the things people really start to believe. If you're in an echo

Aransas Savas: chamber though, and you're hearing that reinforced, you start to believe it.

ybody can say anything. Yes. [: 00:29:15

Aransas Savas: It scares me too, and I think we need to get out of our own. Echo chamber, echo, and we need to hear [00:29:30] other people's stories.

s room with us. In real life [: 00:29:45

And I promise I won't call you an icon or a legend to your face again. No, I'm, I'm not offended. I'm just like, I, I can't live up to that. I was at an [00:30:00] event last year with Andrea Shields and he introduced himself. He was like. I go by the pronouns icon legenda

Sandra Bookman: god

Music: of theater.

ually can, he lives up to it.[: 00:30:15

Yeah.

our life and then join us in [: 00:30:30

It'll really help us connect with more [00:30:45] uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mmm.

semary. And I'm dwelling the [: 00:31:00

With that hindsight, bring the [00:31:15] sun to twilight. Lift you up. Whoa.

Lift you up.

Lift you up. Whoa. [: 00:31:30

Lift you up.

Lift you[: 00:31:45

lift.

Mm. Beautiful. I cried. [: 00:32:00