The Menopause Secret No One Talks About

TUP EP 099

Voiceover: [: 00:00:00

A mother of two young adult [00:00:30] daughters, a wife, a caregiving daughter in law, community volunteer, and as of recently, an Amazon bestseller. As if that list isn't long and impressive enough, she is also somehow like so many of us. Many more things to many others on any given [00:00:45] day. I consider myself lucky to call her a friend and beyond blessed to have found her right now, especially as I currently sit smack in what Shaina calls the middle.

Hey, it's Ransa

cast. Every week, I have the [: 00:01:00

None of us know all the answers. Through each other's stories, we can find new ways of [00:01:30] experiencing changes and challenges that we face. You just heard Tracy Seary, a longtime listener of this show, nominate a woman who inspires her, Dr. Shana Kaufman. And in this conversation, Dr. Shana and I are going to talk about menopause, which I feel like [00:01:45] everybody's talking about.

ring her story. I am really, [: 00:02:00

However, I think a lot of those conversations really focus [00:02:15] on what we're losing. And that kind of sucks the life out of me. That feels like a drag. Today, Dr. Shana and I are going to talk about other ways we might face this time of change. Ways of [00:02:30] processing the hard and the uncomfortable and the messy bits of it, but also maybe celebrating the opportunities that come with this time.

more attention we pay to the [: 00:02:45

I know I did. Thanks for coming here today, Shaina. So Tracy, Siri, reached out to me, [00:03:15] long time listener of the show, and she said, I have the perfect person for you. And what I've learned is that when people know one person and they're like, I have the person for you, they're always right. And she said, you have to meet my [00:03:30] friend, Dr.

do courageous things. Tracy, [: 00:03:45

Shayna: I met virtually and probably didn't meet her in person for three or four years after we connected. I don't even remember how she found me, but she joined a online meditation group that I was [00:04:00] offering in January of 2021, shortly after COVID began.

ything. The world was upside [: 00:04:15

Tracy showed up. That group Which was meant to be a January [00:04:30] 2020 offering is now entering its fourth year And I think Tracy has probably been to most every single Thursday in those four years as well as a number of workshops and retreats That i've done in person So I think Tracy Both [00:04:45] experienced and learned a lot about the magic of presence and you talked about fear and fear being such a common human experience that you're right, it's not bad.

It's a signal and part of my [: 00:05:00

And my path is to be with them and then see what follows after that.

Aransas: [: 00:05:30

I mean, that's the very definition of bravery in my mind. Two, when you let go of the belief that you had to know what was next before leaving something and had to be an expert at something before you begin [00:06:00] it. I thought you were too old at 50 to make a complete career transition. And then three, That working in a prestigious, lucrative field that was sucking the life out of you was a symbol that it was [00:06:15] time to do something different and that you would actively regret not doing it if you didn't take the plunge and do something more heart centered and aligned.

nother one was going through [: 00:06:30

And the courage to not sidestep grief, but to be with that grief.

and other stories about your [: 00:07:15

Look out for midlife. Look out for a career change. Look out for a move. Look [00:07:30] out for grief. Look out for injury because these things will take you down. Exactly. Right. And so we've given these big messages of you should be afraid of this stuff. And it sounds like for you, the [00:07:45] shift was saying, wait, what if there's another way to look at this?

tch out is going to take you [: 00:08:00

But instead of appreciating that, we're all [00:08:15] going to go through loss. It's just a natural human experience. We may or may not go through career changes. We're all going to go through some physical decline or maybe not pain, but certainly physical changes. And rather than. [00:08:30] Seeing them at this, as this dreaded thing, seeing this as the normal human condition and choosing to respond rather than just react.

empowering to see these life [: 00:08:45

Music: Mm hmm.

voiding them or sidestepping [: 00:09:00

I came out the other side way stronger and more empowered than I could have envisioned because I didn't sidestep it. And I built fortitude and I built [00:09:15] resilience and I found an inner strength that I didn't knew existed that was within me that was very much there. So part of what I'm agreeing with you so much so is that that narrative around natural hard [00:09:30] times that accompany natural joyful times sets us up for so much more discomfort than we have to have, which is an added layer of the discomfort we're going to have anyway.

But the, you know, the mindset going into it, aggravating that.

Aransas: If we [: 00:09:45

How can I be with this? How can I grow with this? How might I use this for something greater? [00:10:15] It's really easy to try to rescue ourselves from pain and to rescue others from pain and to just say like, let me wrap myself or others in bubble wrap so that nothing bad ever happens. And then to your point, we never learn.

We have any [: 00:10:30

From your work [00:11:00] now, from talking to so many women in midlife, and I ask this as a woman who is, you know, flat up against my 50th birthday, which I'm actually super freaking excited about, Although my family have lived till 100, so I just have this assumption that this is like a halfway point. You're just halfway.

Yeah. And I'm [: 00:11:15

I mean, I have some good role models too. My grandmother's 95. Uh, she'll be 96 in June and she's still running every day and she still does her yoga every day. What? She's a beast.

Shayna: Oh my gosh. Still running. Positive role models.

Aransas: [: 00:11:45

Shayna: Yeah, great question. The opposite of what you're thinking. So women [00:12:00] approaching kind of the middle decades and older and thinking that it's too late. And then I've missed this window and that I've aged out. So really seeing it, you're seeing is at this, woo, I'm just halfway and it's going to get better and better.

And [: 00:12:15

Menopause is not just all the hormonal fluctuations going on, but it's also the signal that ability to bear [00:12:45] children. That door shut and so there's a huge mental loss for some women that goes with that. So menopause, if we have kids, as our kids are launching and growing and our mom role is whittling down and [00:13:00] taking a very different picture, that's often, who am I with my mother?

I re enter the workforce and [: 00:13:15

That's often fear based because there isn't markers for that. Other [00:13:30] fears around things that we didn't expect, such as caregiving. We're in that sandwich generation where for many of us, if we're fortunate, our parents are still around and we may or may not have kids in the mix. But all of a sudden, we're switching from being the [00:13:45] care receivers from the older generations to the care providers.

hese huge differences in our [: 00:14:00

Aransas: Yeah, the sense that what success looks like stays the same. And so instead of opening up our lens and saying like, what is this time perfect for? So I, it's a question I ask a lot in my work is like, [00:14:15] what is this moment perfect for?

for? What's my midlife time [: 00:14:30

Shayna: I love that. What is this moment perfect for? I am, I am borrowing that one.

. I love that. Thank you for [: 00:14:45

And like a hard career. A hard career, but also a very.

Aransas: Who's

Shayna: a

right? I mean, not sexy. It [: 00:15:15

Shayna: super sexy. It is sexy. Yeah. I was very popular at parties because everyone wants to hear stories. Yeah. There was a power in that for me that I could be like, I do this, I'm cool, and everyone's interested in what I do.

And I could [: 00:15:30

was part of me. And then here was this mother, zen practitioner, those two worlds were not meshing anymore. And this was the [00:16:00] real me and the other world was an older version of me. But as I'm approaching 15, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? I mean, I've got a doctorate, there's opportunities, but this has been my profession, you know, for 25 years.

y good at it. Do I stay here [: 00:16:15

And to your question, what's the perfect thing for now? And I didn't have an answer to that. The answer came in a meditation retreat when I had a hot flash. So I'm, I'm at this juncture of career where I [00:16:45] know I have to leak it. There's not a question. I don't know what. And going to meditation retreats, you know, three to five days silent meditation retreats is something that I've done, you know, three times a year.

to this and it was the third [: 00:17:00

So it's the afternoon block and it's a [00:17:15] super hot, sticky day. And we don't have AC in San Diego because it doesn't get that hot here. And I go to sit down after lunch and, which is also my hardest meditation block because it's after lunch. It's kind of a tired time of day. You're digesting your food. And it's also the [00:17:30] hottest time of day.

the block, here comes a hot [: 00:17:45

And I'm sitting there going, you've got to be effing kidding. Like now, seriously. My hair's not even a ponytail. I can't fan [00:18:00] myself. I can't do anything to seek comfort. This sucks. I can't believe it. And this went on and on, which is the total opposite of what you're supposed to be doing in a meditation retreat, which is just being present to it is.

t complain to anyone because [: 00:18:15

And I did that. And let me tell you, there's like a party of sensations happening in the body [00:18:30] and a hot flash. You know, I could feel the sweat going down my cheek. I could feel the heat rising and falling. You know, I could feel, Oh, I never realized that sweat accumulates here. It was just like fascinating.

f this hot flash and all the [: 00:18:45

That was it And then it was over. So the whole story, the narrative around it, is mostly what made it so [00:19:15] miserable. And that misery was also what you talked about earlier, that message of what we're supposed to expect. Like, we're supposed to dread those hot flashes, they're terrible, they're gonna take us over, we all dread them.

e when they're horrible, but [: 00:19:30

And then it led to a further epiphany that all of this other midlife stuff was right on my horizon. The kids were about to launch, one was a senior, one was a sophomore. My mother had been diagnosed with dementia. That journey was [00:20:00] beginning. I was needing to retire and have knee surgery after 40 years of being a runner.

me. Why can't I be a runner? [: 00:20:15

Like, what is my intention? What is my word? And the word was [00:20:30] embracing because I want to be gentle with it. I wanted to just embrace it, but then accept it. It's happening. Okay. You know, I accept it. That's very different than I accept it and I'm going to gently be present to it. So that was [00:20:45] the birth of

Aransas: my intention.

onversation with you in this [: 00:21:00

I haven't had my first hot flush and I've gotten the message that this is awful and I should [00:21:15] dread it.

Shayna: It can be, by the way, just for reality check. Some people, it's like a hiccup. Yeah. Some people it's bad. Some people don't even know they're in menopause. So don't buy into that. It's horrible for everyone.

my, my mom says she was just [: 00:21:30

Shayna: Which also tells you that in retrospect, it's like [00:21:45] a hiccup.

be pretty intense. And then [: 00:22:00

And what I learned from these women is that it ranged from some women who didn't even know they were [00:22:15] on menopause to their doctors told them when they went in for a physical to other women who their lives turned upside down. So huge variability in terms of how it manifests, how long it manifests and that sort of thing.

Huge variability. That's so good.

Aransas: [: 00:22:30

But she said one thing that's really stuck with me and that I use throughout labor and delivery, which she said, you're not being injured [00:23:00] during labor. This is, there is a difference between pressure and pain. So you do not have to react as though you are being injured. This is a, it is your uterus contracting, right?

And so that [: 00:23:15

Shayna: Exactly. You were doing what I did with the hot flash. You were riding the wave of a, of a, of a contraction without the added narrative of I'm going to be [00:23:45] hurt.

This is terrible. You were just present to the wave of the contraction. That was beautiful.

, Oh, I know how to do this. [: 00:24:00

Shayna: way. And that's the beauty of midlife is that all these years of experience, we have cultivated tools.

box and different tools work [: 00:24:15

Aransas: we are.

at are some of the other big [: 00:24:30

Shayna: We're far more alike than different. Because I interviewed women from around the globe and I was actually looking from a statistical perspective whether there are cultural differences to the female midlife experience. So my [00:24:45] takeaway was that although there are micro differences within people and with cultures, the macro experience of being a woman in midlife is the same.

pain points is our physical [: 00:25:00

I lost a sibling. I never thought I would lose a sibling when he was 60. Um, death and loss is the big pain point. And then another one is something we already touched on, which is that kind of sandwich crunch, that navigating multi generations and being [00:25:30] in the middle and the caregiving needs that goes with that.

widen their lens and be more [: 00:25:45

It's not just the wisdom of. Hearing a [00:26:00] cliche, but it's knowing that cliche in our body because we've lived it. So this too shall pass. Yes, intellectually, we know that's true by midlife. We have gone through breakups. We have gone through hardships. We know on a visceral [00:26:15] level, this will pass. So I call it embodied wisdom.

llment of female friendships [: 00:26:30

Like, they're there, but because the gifts of [00:26:45] aging are more subtle than the challenges, we don't notice them as much. It's a really beautiful thing when we pause to take stock, and then when we see them happening in real time, when we catch ourselves having a challenge, you know, for [00:27:00] me, my computer crashes.

e we catch ourselves in real [: 00:27:15

And the mutual satisfaction we can [00:27:30] get from being with like minded women because I think that competition is lessened, that comparison, that we've all come into our own so we connect women to women much more [00:27:45] easily and be there to support each other and lift each other up.

Aransas: What patterns did you notice amongst the women who were most enjoying the benefits of the second half of life?

Shayna: A mindset was one, a [: 00:28:00

Confronting some of the shifts, and really not running from them. So, confronting career dead ends. [00:28:30] You know, like I did confronting an unsatisfactory marriage instead of just this is how it is and I'm this far in life. So, c'est la vie. Write it out. Write it out. [00:28:45] Exactly. That

Aransas: sounds so sad. It is sad. It is sad.

But I get why somebody would come to that conclusion.

hat made. It's not well, you [: 00:29:00

And then made the changes were so much happier and they also realized how much stronger they were. So there was a woman who I interviewed that had the perfect marriage on the outside and it wasn't the perfect marriage and he was not a nice person [00:29:30] and she got a lot of flat from even her mother being, but he's so this and that and, and she had to risk it all.

an, she is flying right now. [: 00:29:45

There's some women that are so lamenting what they see in the mirror and buying into the cultural narrative that youthful beauty is the only form of beauty and being upset that they [00:30:15] weigh, you know, 10 pounds more, that they are a size or two up. You know, I think the women that just fought against that to exhaustion were far less happier than the ones who are like.

iked how it looked the other [: 00:30:30

There's a woman [00:30:45] who wanted to go gray, and she was very happy growing out her gray, but she was getting resistance from her family who was not happy with her being gray. And that made her challenge so much different, difficult. So I think it's also having [00:31:00] supportive people in your world that support your choices.

Aransas: Yeah. And doing it anyway, even if

Shayna: And doing it anyway, yeah.

e and, and certainly certain [: 00:31:15

Looking for new strengths and possibilities in there, maybe? Yeah,

ty. And it was how I started [: 00:31:45

And that got. Shattered and it took me a while [00:32:00] to grieve and not look at runners with envy and then just honor what my body can do. I can still hike. I hike with my walking sticks. I'm thrilled that I can hike. So rather than focus on the runner of what I can't [00:32:15] do, I'm enjoying hiking that I can do. So it's a focusing on what you can do, not what you can't do.

uch time. Two and a day. And [: 00:32:30

Shayna: Yeah. It's one or the other for sure. Yeah. It forces you to find new possibilities.

ike one door closes, another [: 00:32:45

Aransas: And I think where we feel stuck though is when we don't look for the other. windows, right? We just stand there. Yeah, we stand there pouting. I'm picturing my dog when he wants to go out and he just like stands [00:33:00] there and stares at this closed door like he's gonna magically open it with his eyes.

Exactly. I'm thinking of it like staring

now, going out the back door [: 00:33:15

Aransas: Yes. So we have choice. And better fit for your body right now, maybe better fit for your mind right now, maybe better fit for your energy right now, [00:33:30] for your community connections.

months, I feel like, and [: 00:33:45

Like. Yeah. Oh, I don't have to sit in [00:34:00] my rocker.

e I say, what is this moment [: 00:34:15

Is that the saying? What is this moment perfect for? That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's becoming the mantra for me. So thank you.

ook. Let us know when you're [: 00:34:30

Shayna: What a birth. Yes, it was a good year.

Aransas: Yes.

goals that I wanted this out [: 00:34:45

Aransas: Here's to setting goals for our 60th birthday. Yes. You know. Yeah. Like I do think that you talk about the too late messaging.

be happy with what you have. [: 00:35:00

Shayna: it's hitting the road.

ransas: You and Mick Jagger. [: 00:35:15

com. Head over to Spotify, Apple podcast or. Wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show, it'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never [00:35:45] miss one of these beautiful stories.

ing, perplexing. You find it.[: 00:36:00

Be your own best lover. Relish in a new prime. Plant a tree in springtime. Dance with idle hindsight. Bring the sun to twilight. [00:36:15] Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh [00:36:30] Lift you up. Lift you up.

Lift you[: 00:36:45

lift.

l. I cried. It's that little [: 00:37:00