The Food Rebel: Claudia Castellanos

Aransas Savas (: 00:02

Welcome to the Uplifters podcast. I'm your host, Aranzas Savas, and today the Uplifter joining me in the conversation is Claudia Castellanos. Claudia has become a vocal activist for transforming food ecosystems through the simple premise that food can only be truly good if it's good for you.

if it's good for the planet and good for the people that grow and make it. She's a fellow of Vital Voices, which is an organization that works to elevate women's leadership around the world and part of a global platform of accelerating a new economy that is sustainable, innovative and equitable. She's a member of Ernst & Young's Winning Women, which is a worldwide network of successful and inspiring women entrepreneurs. And she's part of the Eswatini Climate Club.

coalition. In: 2020

Claudia Castellanos (: 01:48

Thank you so much Arancas for having me. The way you've described me makes me sound like wow, and I don't feel that wow all the time, so that sounded really nice.

Aransas Savas (: 01:57

Oh, that's such a beautiful thing to admit that it's so easy to lose perspective of our progress because we get so in the moment of creating and doing and on to the next. And we need those moments, I think, to step back and see it all come together and to see the through lines in those stories. What got you into the food space, Claudia?

Claudia Castellanos (: 03:32

I define myself as an accidental entrepreneur. I started my career in the corporate world. Everything that I did was sort of like aim towards that. But I mean, I always loved food and wine. That's a fact. But like any other people, you know, not to get the career into that. But when I turned 30, I had what I call my sort of...

awakening crisis. When I started looking for purpose, I found out that my life was somehow empty. And I did what a lot of people tend to do, which is like, let me go and look for purpose in Africa. And I arrived where I live now in Esotini as a volunteer. And as soon as I arrived here, I saw the possibility of working with rural communities as a motor of development for the country. And then I met

the person that is not my husband and he was really into hot sauces and then I said we could potentially link that love for spicy foods and the fact of the attraction appeal that chili sauces or peppers would have and link it to rural development. So that's what got me into food. It was more sort of the look for purpose, looking for purpose and looking for a way to...

help develop the rural communities as my, for my volunteer experience, basically.

Aransas Savas (: 04:58

I love that. So there is a love for the product as a service to the people and the planet.

Claudia Castellanos (: 05:06

That was the first love, but then I realized that I, like anyone that has tried hot sauces or peppers could probably also realize and say yes, that you become really addicted to it. So at some point you can't really eat without it. And that became also a passion and an obsession for spicy foods, for vibrant colors, for combinations. So something that didn't start as a passion per se, but more as an...

I added extra for the passion of developing communities turn that into, in turn into a proper foodie basically.

Aransas Savas (: 05:42

I often say that the more layers of joy and purpose and satisfaction that we find in an endeavor, the more likely we are to keep showing up for it. And so for you, I hear just layer upon layer of why to keep you going through the tough parts of this. So many women and people in general don't think of themselves as entrepreneurs

the ability to become an entrepreneur. So when you describe yourself as an accidental entrepreneur, it makes me curious what gave you the confidence to embark on creating your own company?

Claudia Castellanos (: 06:26

I think one thing that I discovered throughout my journey, but very early in my journey as an entrepreneur was the massive transformational purpose, the MTP. I believe all of us deep down, if you really look deep in your heart, you'll find this thing that push you forward. And I realized that that's what...

put me through on all the challenges and all the bad things because the life as an entrepreneur is a roller coaster or everything of emotions, good moments, bad moments. And I really do believe that is the fact that you have something really deep inside you that pushes to move forward t

Aransas Savas (: 08:17

And what helped you see your purpose? Because that is something a lot of us struggle to find.

Claudia Castellanos (: 08:26

I think the first thing is trying to figure out when you're missing that purpose, if it makes sense. And that's what happened to me, you know, you get to a certain age in life, usually every decade sort of like brings for people, I think this sort of like inner thinking or am I where I'm supposed to be? I'm turning another, you know, year older and it's a whole decade that has passed. So that happened to me when I turned 30, again, when I turned 40.

Aransas Savas (: 08:34

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 08:55

And when I turned 30, I started thinking, what is missing? I felt this sort of emptiness. And I realized that I was missing a purpose of doing something for other people. So that was my initial purpose, development. And I thought Africa could bring, in a very naive way back then, some sort of purpose of feeling that I was helping others. when I had kids I started worrying a lot about the environment and I started worrying What sort of legacy am I living for them?

Claudia Castellanos (: 09:54

It's not their fault what we've done as adults. We people have like messed up the planet I felt it was my duty to lead by example in this case, to show them that we could do better for development, but also in ways that would be threading lightly with the planet. So my second part of my massive transformational purpose is my kids.

Aransas Savas (: 10:10

Mm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 10:23

But I've discovered that through time, basically.

Aransas Savas (: 10:23

Mm.

Yes. Well, I think too that there's a huge universal lesson for uplifters in what you're sharing in this moment, because we all have moments where we feel stuck or uncertain. And I believe that in those moments, maybe we've lost a job or we've lost a loved one, or we don't know what's next. That the

answer usually is to look at something that we worry about a lot. We find ourselves ruminating over and going deep into rabbit holes and getting more frustrated about or finding something that we dream of and then figuring out how to show up for that for other people. Because I think for uplifters in particular, until we understand how it serves, it's really hard for us to motivate ourselves into action. And so I hear just such a

powerful example of that in your story that we all need a reminder of probably every decade or so to your point.

Claudia Castellanos (: 11:31

Exactly.

So talk to me about this belief that food is only truly good if it's good for the consumer, the planet and the producers.

Claudia Castellanos (: 12:50

So that sort of realization came out of the initial work with Black Mamba. So initially we started Black Mamba as a motor of development for rural communities, but that allowed me to connect as well very closely with the earth, with the planet itself. The country where we live is a very rural country. It's a country where like literally you use shoes only when you really need to go out. It's a deep connection that you probably tend to forget sometimes.

And so we started asking the communities as well, and we started teaching them to grow food organically and via permaculture methods. So that's the first sort of like approach that we had to that concept. And then I started as well seeing our normal food ecosystems the way we nourish ourselves. So there's been a big, after COVID in particular, I think a big sort of realization of we need to put things into our bodies that are good for us.

But I think the food ecosystems are still flawed if you think the only benefit that you can get is for you as a human. it's great that we get healthy foods. But is it really healthy if it's not healthy for the planet? Is it really healthy? If it's really healthy, if it's grown with lots of pesticides, it's grown with a lot of things that it's not organic.

Aransas Savas (: 14:01

Mmhmm.

Aransas Savas (: 14:07

Not helping. Yeah.

Claudia Castellanos (: 14:17

And is it really healthy if you don't pay a proper amount of money to the people that make it and grow it? So for me, the three things that really are important, and that's one of the things why I call myself a food rebel, because we are quite a few of those food rebels that have decided the way we are thinking about food is fundamentally wrong. The only way that food can be good.

as overall for society, if it's good for you, good for the planet, and food for the communities.

Aransas Savas (: 14:50

it sounds very clear that we would all want to do that. And yet, why don't we?

Claudia Castellanos (: 15:02

I think because the food that we've been used to have and I think it's more, I think it has a change in younger generations but I think in general when you go to a supermarket you get this myriad of foods. They are conveniently priced. They've been sold to you as good food. You know we used to have in the 80s all these cereals that were packed with sugar and we were convinced that was great for us because it would give us energy.

Aransas Savas (: 15:13

Mm-hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 15:23

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 15:32

There was a lack of knowledge or real knowledge because you understand and you believe what the big corporates tell you. But I believe as well now that we have access to a lot of more information. There is of course a lot of greenwashing going on there, but I believe especially younger generations, I see it with millennials, but mostly with the gen zed that there are much more advocates of this and they are.

Aransas Savas (: 15:49

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 16:01

not willing to believe everything the big corporates tell them. So there is a little bit of a change of that perception and also I believe as consumers we have incredible power with our purchasing decisions to change that food ecosystem. So it's up to us to keep on stressing the fact that these things need to happen for people to start demanding more.

Aransas Savas (: 16:05

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 16:27

And then the little change makers that are all of us, the small businesses will potentially create a larger movement for the larger companies to realize that, well, it might not be as cheap for us to produce food that doesn't have many preservatives or weird stuff that you put in there that nobody can pronounce. It might be more difficult, but it's what our customers are demanding.

Aransas Savas (: 16:27

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 16:51

So I think that's a little bit of an awakening that is happening, that it started with healthy for you, but I think it's little by little moving into healthy for the planet and good for communities as well.

Aransas Savas (: 16:52

Mm-hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 17:01

Yes, and I think it's harder to change hearts and minds than to respond to hearts and minds. And so I think you're so right that for those of us who grew up with a different belief system around food, that transition is more difficult, but young people are the most amazing questioners and challengers of the status quo. And so often they do guide the force for change because they haven't.

bought into the old indoctrination of how things are. And I live with this constantly with a 12 and 15-year-old who question everything. And sometimes that's exhausting. And most of the time, they're giving me a vital perspective that I'm just not hearing anywhere else in my life.

as an entrepreneur who is, for all intents and purposes, selling a new way of thinking, what helps you manage the inevitable difficulties of feeling heard and understood by so many different groups, right? Whether it's

the farmers, the customers, the companies. How do you carry on?

Claudia Castellanos (: 18:25

Wow. I ask myself the same question sometimes. Why do I carry on? Because there is quite a bit of opposition. We are not a big company, although we believe that we can grow to be that. We understand, and this comes probably from me as well, that we have this massive transformational purpose that we need to live onto. It goes beyond selling products, which is great, because we want to be sustainable.

Aransas Savas (: 18:54

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 18:55

But we understand there's something bigger than us in this case. But I think, and this is related to, I was asked very recently, what do I think are the traits of successful entrepreneurs? Cause you know, like successful entrepreneurs don't only create a product or a service that is successful, they really become trendsetters. They change something that wasn't there before or completely move it around.

Aransas Savas (: 19:10

Hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 19:20

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 19:24

I really think that this is related to three things. So why don't I give up? I think it's, first of all, I'm a very optimistic person. I have relentless optimism. There's so many things that are bad in the world and everything, but I do believe because there is always something good, there's a silver lining. There's going to be the light at the end of the tunnel. So being an optimistic person is something that puts you through the bad times. I think the other thing is.

Aransas Savas (: 19:52

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 19:54

resilience, undeterred resilience. You will find that every entrepreneur that succeed is the one that didn't give up. That's it. Because there's so many moments throughout the journey that you're like, okay, that's it. we get tired. So instead of quitting, what we tend to do is just rest, take a break and then come back with a plan. Being confident that we will eventually make a difference.

Aransas Savas (: 20:01

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 20:22

So that resilience work on that as well. Being very celebrative, you know, like do a victory dance when things go well, and if they don't go well, just regroup and then go back. And I think the third time that has allowed me to keep on pushing is boundless curiosity. And I think it's also a trait of entrepreneurs. We are genuinely curious. We wanna ask questions, like if I find somebody, a buyer that doesn't-

Aransas Savas (: 20:42

Hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 20:46

Mm-hmm.

Claudia Castellanos (: 20:52

believing what we're doing. And I get that a lot. I said, it's all your fluff is like nice, but it's fluff. And it's just very frustrating I mean, it's not fluff. It's actually the foundation of like the life of us as humans in this planet. But I want to ask him why he thinks it's fluff. I want to, I don't close myself and say, okay, you know what? You don't understand anything, but rather tell me more. I want to build relationships. I want to know more. I want to understand where you're coming from.

Aransas Savas (: 21:02

Yeah.

Claudia Castellanos (: 21:22

And that link to the optimism what comes across, I think, is a package of bountiful energy and passion. And there's no way that people or somebody that is so negative can necessarily hate you when you are really interested in genuinely interested in knowing their point of view. So I think those three things have been very, very powerful in being able to move forward.

Aransas Savas (: 21:40

Yes.

Aransas Savas (: 21:46

And not just as an entrepreneur, but all of those are true for thriving in all of life. And that last one, when somebody challenges a perspective that you hold dear and that you know for sure is impactful and that you believe in deeply, of course it makes sense to be frustrated and disappointed

that they can't see what you can see. And for so many of us, that's where the conversation stops, is, how can you be so blind to not see what I'm telling you? There must be either a problem with you or a problem with me. So I'm gonna move on. But what you're saying is in those moments, instead we can say, wow.

That's really interesting that you hold a different perspective. Let me understand that so that I understand my own perspective better. I understand your perspective better, and I am smarter for the next moment this happens.

Claudia Castellanos (: 22:53

and you put yourself in the other person's shoes. There must be a reason why, and that helps so much to understand the other's perspective. I can tell you, I haven't been like this all my life. I'm Colombian. We're sort of fiery, and patience is definitely not one of our virtue, at least not for mine. But I've realized that I am genuinely a curious person, so I always wanna know more. I wanna know how this works, I wanna know why you think the way you think, I wanna meet your friends, and that boundless curiosity has tamed.

Aransas Savas (: 23:07

Hehehe

Claudia Castellanos (: 23:23

a little bit the impatience in me when again, I feel that what I'm called to do is bigger than the fact that I get frustrated and angry and move on and said like, you don't understand anything, that's impossible to talk to you.

Aransas Savas (: 23:37

That's so good. It is this idea of moving from the micro to the macro. And this little moment is just a step toward my transformative purpose. And once you've done the work to find that, why would you give up? Because one person holds a different perspective. And yet we do. Because it feels debilitating in the moment.

.

Claudia Castellanos (: 24:12

Exactly, you live and you learn, I guess.

Aransas Savas (: 24:15

And that's why we need each other. That's why we need to hear each other's voices because whether we're an entrepreneur or anything else, these moments are gonna happen. And by hearing how other people manage them in different ways, we get the same chance to learn from others and grow personally. With all of the groups that you're involved in, with leading a company, with leading a movement or three, how do you find the time and the space to take care of you?

Claudia Castellanos (: 25:04

I love that question because especially when you're an entrepreneur in a scaling business, you tend to for a while forget about yourself. Like you say, you know, like you are running a business, I'm also a mother of two small children. I never know how to say no and I'm excited about everything. But it is definitely important. I think mental health is something that we talk about a lot, but we don't really do it. You know, it's like, we need to do that. We need to take care of ourselves. But what does that mean really? So I think everybody has a different way of doing that. And a great thing that being an entrepreneur brings is flexibility. So we don't have an eight to five job. We have a 24 hours job.

But that allows me at some point to say, I'm taking the afternoon off because I want to spend time with my kids because I don't want that mom guilt because I've been all the time working and I've been traveling for two weeks and I haven't seen them. So I do get the privilege to take those hours for quality time for the things that I care about.

So my own thing is I need to find the time for me. One of them is exercise and music. Again, Columbia, I love dancing. So I always find in the morning, even if it's half an hour, put on music on, I dance, I just push away all the sort of frustrations, angers, and it makes me feel much better. I've realized that the day that I...

Aransas Savas (: 26:38

Hehehe

Claudia Castellanos (: 26:52

don't dance and do a little bit of working out in the morning, it's definitely not as good as a day that I do it. And that has come with time. So it's more like a routine and a habit that makes my day a better day. the best ideas usually come from that. We tend to just work every day so much. When you take away yourself out of that, either by a walk, even if it's just a quick 15, 20 minutes walk, if you get that possibility.

or taking a break and go and read something that is not business related. You know, sometimes I tell my family, I love you, a, but I need some time for me. So get out of here, go and do something. Don't bug me for two hours. I'm gonna read my book. And it's usually good literature, nothing to do with business. And usually the best ideas pop out of there, out of the blue. So those two things,reading something that is non-business related in my time and exercising is what keeps me sane.

Aransas Savas (: 27:48

Such good advice. And I do think we can have a tendency to use just one part of our brains and then find that part sort of slowly degrading and getting more tired. And the way to re-energize it is to use a different part of our brains. So as we wrap up this episode, I take from you, Claudia, so many reminders about the

Aransas Savas (: 28:44

effects of our choices as individuals, whether we are consumers or creators, that there will be ripple effects on people and planet. And we have the opportunity to be more conscious and more intentional as uplifters in terms of our role to impact change or to deepen

Aransas Savas (: 29:13

along the way to do good work in the world, the first person we have to care for is ourselves. If we're gonna have a big purpose, we have to be okay. And you've given us so many beautiful lessons on how to do that. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a food rebel and a change maker and doing so much good for women especially.

Claudia Castellanos (: 29:43

Thank you so much for having me here, Aranzas. It was such a pleasure to share with you.