The Courage to Go Your Own Way With Alexis Shepard

Aransas Savas (: 00:01

You just heard Caitlin Johnstone introduce her friend, Alexis Shepherd. Alexis, thanks for being here.

Alexis (: 00:54

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to chatting as well. Caitlin is incredible.

Aransas Savas (: 01:12

Alexis (: 01:23

And so when she recommended me for your podcast, I was all too excited to jump in.

Aransas Savas (: 01:28

Yeah, she's pretty special.

Alexis (: 01:31

Absolutely, she is. I am just really grateful to be in community with her because she really is one of the folks that's out here doing the work, walking the walk in the most authentic and genuine way.

Aransas Savas (: 03:18

So tell me about you

Alexis (: 03:23

my name is Alexis Shepherd. I actually am a middle name kid. My full name is Kimberly Alexis Shepherd, but I go by my middle name, per my parents. And I say that because I think that just sets a precedent for, me being someone who goes their own way. I am a former teacher, which is initially how Caitlin and I were connected. I taught in elementary and middle school settings for about 10 years. So from 2012 into the end of 2021, I was a classroom educator. And through my work as a classroom educator, I grew a passion for supporting and uplifting

Aransas Savas (: 03:55

Huh?

Alexis (: 04:14

teachers and looking at teacher self care and teacher well being my platform was called the Afro educator and it was really about just connecting people and bringing them into spaces to support their well being and to.

Aransas Savas (: 04:21

Wow.

Alexis (: 04:36

encourage and empower them to have courage and to be their authentic selves in advocating for themselves and what they needed to be able to teach well and also sustainably. And so I did that for about five to six years in tandem with teaching. And then I actually walked away from the classroom mid-year in the 2021-2022 school year. And I transitioned into having a career in higher ed.

Alexis (: 05:06

And so, through that, think there's certainly a lot of conversations we can have there about authenticity and about courage. I am also, my husband and I are also child-free by choice. And so we have actively chosen not to have children. And certainly that has been a walk and a journey as well and is

Aransas Savas (: 05:06

And so,, through that, I think there's certainly a lot of conversation we can have there about authenticity and about courage. I am also, husband and I are also child free by choice. And so we have,, actively chosen not to have children and certainly that has been a wild journey as well. It is.

Alexis (: 05:27

really a piece of my identity that I have been exploring more over the past three to four years in terms of being more vocal.

Aransas Savas (: 05:27

really a piece of my identity that I have been exploring more over the past 24 years.

Alexis (: 05:35

in terms of educating people about that choice and what that looks like for me, and also being transparent about some of the struggles that exist in being,, a 30 something, black woman who has made this choice in a society where that's still relatively countercultural. And so,, I look at a lot of things that I've experienced, either by choice or because there were just incidental scenarios.

Alexis (: 06:05

where I have had to really lean into this idea of courageously going my own way, even when everyone else isn't. And so, when I was just looking at some of the overall themes of your podcast and when Caitlin originally recommended me for this, I was so excited because it felt so in alignment with where my life has always been, no matter what stage I've been at at the time.

Aransas Savas (: 06:13

I'm excited because it so

Even from little girlhood when you chose to be Alexis. I'm singing that song now in my head, a little bit Alexis from Schitt's Creek.

Alexis (: 06:35

Mm hmm. Absolutely.

Yeah, listen, everybody

says that. It's so funny. So my husband's name is Aaron. And anytime somebody meets him, they do the A-A-Ron thing from from Key and Peele. And so because I'm Alexis, I always get the Schitt's Creek references. And so I love it.

Aransas Savas (: 06:53

Ha ha ha

You

I mean, the music in that show is pretty great. But actually that song is very much about the same theme, which is going your own way. And being a little bit Alexis means being truly uniquely who you are.

Alexis (: 07:11

Yeah.

Aransas Savas (: 07:17

I think that's scary for a lot of us, right? you are somebody who has consciously repeatedly chosen to go your own way.

it's interesting that you mentioned that because something that has come up for me is the fact like when I was a teacher, right? There are all these things that you tell your students and one of those things is,, stand up for what you believe in, even if everybody else is doing something different. I also went to school and like they just say no.

Aransas Savas (: 08:52

Mmm.

Alexis (: 08:56

, dare, error. And there's all of this talk about having integrity and doing what aligns with your values, even in the midst of everyone else doing something different. And we say that and we hold children to this expectation. And as an adult, what I've discovered is that for better or for worse, there are a lot of us who I think truly have never experienced what it is like

to actively make choices that put us on islands. And to clarify, that's not to say that folks don't experience challenge, but it's to say that, for example, I'm not a parent, but I have a lot of friends who are parents. And parenting certainly is challenging. To me, it appears to be one of the most challenging things you could do. Rewarding, but really, really difficult. The choice to have children is a hard choice.

Aransas Savas (: 09:28

Mm-hmm.

Alexis (: 09:54

It is not a choice, however, that you're doing in isolation or in a majority. And I say that from the sense of there are lots of people in the world that you can look to, probably also people in your local sphere who you can look at and see how they have navigated those challenges. That doesn't make it easier, but it means there's a standard. you can.

Go through the hardships and you can look at those people and say, but they made it and I have confidence that I can too. In my experience, when you are truly, truly going against the grain and standing on your own, you don't necessarily have that. And that's what makes it scary is there's not that precedent. There's not that standard where you can look and say, this person that I know that I'm connected to, that I'm in community with, they did it.

Aransas Savas (: 10:35

Also

what makes this scary is there's not that precedent, there's not that standard where you can look and say, this person that I know, that I'm connected to, that I'm connected to, they did

it, and they made it out okay. They still have a happy, fulfilled, successful life. And I think that's where some of the fear comes from. There's a lot of unknown around, if I do this alternative thing, is it still going to lead me to an outcome?

Alexis (: 10:46

And they made it out okay. Like they still had a happy, fulfilled, successful life. And I think that's where some of the fear comes from is there's a lot of unknown around if I do this alternative thing, is it still going to lead me to an outcome that

I can be happy with?

Aransas Savas (: 11:06

Right. That's such a great point. if I don't have a bunch of proof points to show me it's okay, you can survive this hard thing, then it just feels infinitely scarier and more unstable.

Alexis (: 11:51

Absolutely.

Aransas Savas (: 11:53

And so do you consciously think about that all these times that you're going your own way?

Alexis (: 12:00

That's really funny. No, actually, I think it really depends on the gravity of the decision in my mind. So for example, leaving teaching mid-year. More and more people have done it.

I certainly think it's becoming less taboo, but there are still lots of strong feelings out there about it because,, I had 60 or 70 students that year that I was serving who I walked away from and people have strong feelings about that because there are,, lots of these children who are impacted by the fact that you've left. build a connection with you. They built a relationship with you. Their families have built relationships with you and you've set a precedent.

And now you're leaving that behind and it can feel selfish because you're making a decision for you knowing that there are potentially going to be negative impacts for others, right? But I think in that scenario, understanding how school systems work, the fact that they're going to hire and replace my position and, , ultimately.

yes, these children will be affected. I can do my very best to try to help manage those emotions and to explain to them. I had a relationship with my students that I was very transparent with them. so me leaving wasn't a super surprise. I certainly didn't lament about the work, but I shared with them that I had other passions, that I had other dreams, and that teaching wasn't something that I wanted to do forever. And so for me, I think I was less concerned about the outcome because I felt that I had navigated.

the time up through that decision r in a way where the kids were sad, but they had a respect for the decision.

Aransas Savas (: 13:50

You were teaching them

more through the way you navigated the exit than you would have by staying.

Alexis (: 13:54

Mm-hmm.

Yes, I think so one of the precedents that I had said in my classroom.

Aransas Savas (: 14:01

That's freaking huge.

Alexis (: 14:13

, of course I don't see it that way because,, I was really just doing my thing. But I'd like to think and I'd like to believe and I'd like to look at some of the relationships that I have with my students and say that my classroom was a safe space for my kids to be whoever it is that they wanted to be. And for them to self express, even if it wasn't always accepted in other classes.

But there was never a lack of respect and compassion or empathy. And I think because I allowed them to exist in that space, I very much got that back from them. And when I have seen them post my classroom career, it has been nothing but love and joy all of that to say.

Alexis (: 15:11

I think for me, I felt so strongly about the fact that I needed to,, leave the classroom to pursue something else that the outcome didn't.

affect me as strongly because I felt so strongly about making the move. Like I had t this deep internal knowing that there was just something else that I needed to do. And with children, it was a little bit more complex because it's seen as this huge, I mean, it is this huge

Alexis (: 15:52

life decision that once you do can't be undone. Or if you don't do it up to a certain point, you can't,, you can't make that happen. At least not in the traditional sense that most people look at it being a parent. And so I didn't really start thinking significantly about that outcome until I looked around me and realized, snap.

Alexis (: 16:21

I don't have anyone in my local sphere to look up to, to tell me this is gonna be okay. And that's why I'm constantly thinking about it because, right, I'm trying to have this benchmark that reassures me that everything's gonna be okay, like you're not gonna be 75 and miserable. So I think the gravity of that just feels existential and heavy.

Aransas Savas (: 16:46

Yeah, yeah. there is this sense of urgency associated with that, that puts the decision under pressure. And when we are under pressure, we are less expansive in our perspective, less creative about our options, and we tend to get narrower. so often I'm making a choice between what is the right way or what is the right way for me in this moment. And I find that the decisions that ultimately harm me the most are the ones where I do it because it's right and quote unquote good,

Alexis (: 17:21

Yeah.

Yes.

Aransas Savas (: 17:44

but it is out of alignment with what's right and true for me. And yet we're so conditioned to follow the rules, Exactly, exactly. rules versus right.

Alexis (: 18:37

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

yes, 100%. .

when you talked about parenthood before, you said, , it is one of the hardest and most rewarding things.. hardest doesn't sound all that attractive. but the reward of doing hard things does sound valuable. And so when we're talking about rules versus right, part of what we're talking about is how do you get your needs met?

Alexis (: 21:35

Mmm.

Aransas Savas (: 21:45

in the most right way. And so for you, being of service, being impactful, doing hard things, that was all important, but how you do it, it was a question of,, what's the right way for me at this point?

Alexis (: 21:47

Yes. Yes.

Thank

Yes, yes, no, that 100 % tracks for me..something I've never thought about is that also choosing child free is hard and that there could be rewards. Like even in my mind, I'm still contrasting my choice with the choice to be a parent and subconsciously identifying that as not as hard. But it is hard in a different way. And to your point, I think for me, the reward is

Aransas Savas (: 23:17

Yeah

Yeah.

It is.

Alexis (: 23:34

the integrity and the authenticity because I value that so much that I am unwilling to compromise doing what feels right for me for the sake of that comfort that may come from the fact that everyone else has done it and come through it okay.

Aransas Savas (: 23:54

in all honesty, I wasn't sure I wanted to have children. When I was little, it was the only thing I wanted And then I became an adult and I was like, that makes no logical sense. And then I was like, I don't know, let's see what happens. And then I was pregnant. And then I was like, I don't know, let's see what happens. And then was pregnant again. And I have two children. And it is like the best choice I never made for me. Like, it's way different than I imagined it.

Alexis (: 24:10

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Aransas Savas (: 24:24

but are there plenty of other ways I could have lived and been really happy and been really satisfied and had deep connection with youth or like, I wouldn't know who Chapel Rowan was right now if it weren't for my kids. Like they teach me so much, but there are so many ways to.

Alexis (: 24:41

Yeah.

Aransas Savas (: 24:54

spend time with young people and gain that perspective. And there are so many children who need that, right? And again, children are not the only way of having impact., and certainly as an educator yourself, you were having a ripple effect on children. And so I do think part of what I'm taking from this that I think we can all use when we're making these tough decisions about whether to...

Alexis (: 24:56

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Aransas Savas (: 25:23

follow the road more traveled or create our own is to consider broadly, to do the research to understand what are some other pathways. Because part of it is, again, that urgency. We're just like, well, this path is here. I'll just go there.

Alexis (: 25:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. and to just figuring out how to navigate your true feelings about something I,, remember in my mid twenties, right around the time that I got married, when people would ask me, I would just say, well, ask me again when I'm 30. Because in my mind at 30, I was gonna have that switch that went off and it was gonna make all of this easier. And I wouldn't have to

Aransas Savas (: 26:06

Yeah.

Alexis (: 26:08

think about the decision because there was already a deep inner knowing about how I felt, but I was unwilling to address it or explore it or admit it because then it felt like I would have to do something about it. because even now, as confident as I am in my decision, there aren't a lot of answers. it's about doing

Aransas Savas (: 26:23

Hmm.

Alexis (: 26:38

what feels right now and trusting that if,, in another present time in the future, that need or that desire arises, that there are other opportunities for me to be able to care for people and serve others outside of like traditional motherhood.

Aransas Savas (: 26:52

Yes.

Yes. Yes. But you're so right that part of the catastrophic thinking that happens that blocks our perception of choice is that we think

my gosh, this door is going to close and I will never be able to open it again. And because of FOMO and fear in general, we do things that out feel out of integrity. And so I think what we take from what you're saying here is,, step back and know that no decision you make is forever.

Alexis (: 27:13

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

we are empowered to change our minds.

Alexis (: 27:44

Yes, yes, that that is being empowered to change your mind and and I would add

having the courage to lean into the fact that, and this was something that was big for me in navigating and truly giving space to my child-free feelings, is the fact that there is no such thing as a what-if free decision and that the what-if is okay.

Aransas Savas (: 28:15

Say more on that.

Alexis (: 28:18

So I got into therapy in 2020, right? Like the switch didn't go off and I was like, okay, we need some help to navigate this. And I remember going in and thinking, okay, when I go into therapy, I'm going to arrive at a definite yes or no answer. I'm gonna feel really confident about it. I'm not gonna have any questions. I'm just gonna know. It's gonna be the ultimate knowing, okay?

So as I'm navigating through these feelings, right, the first kind of realization I come to is that it is okay for me to do what feels right right now, like I talked about before, and trust that if that desire,appears later in life, there will be opportunities for me to express that. The second thing that I had to wrestle with were the questions and thoughts about regret, because that is a question that you get as a child-free person. Well, what if you get to age 70 and you're alone and you regret it?

, what if you get to the point where, you want your own children and you quote, can't have them. Again, just kind of using that societal norm as a standard. I'll never forget when I said this to my therapist is,, there is always an alternate universe, so to speak, where you made a different choice and that path.

Aransas Savas (: 29:20

Yeah.

Alexis (: 29:35

wound up differently because of that. And I think for me, I was looking at regret and what if I was conflating the two and they're different. And I think when we make decisions, there is this expectation that if you are making a good decision and it is the best decision for you, you will never ask any questions around it. You will never have any alternative thoughts around it. You will always think really positively and you will always feel like it is the, you you just won't have any doubts. And I think that

Aransas Savas (: 29:36

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alexis (: 30:06

We have to separate doubt and we have to separate regret from what if. What if is simply the wondering of what does that quote unquote alternative universe look like where I made that different choice. It doesn't mean that I dislike the choice that I have now. It is curiosity and I think it's human and we deny ourselves that when we

Aransas Savas (: 30:08

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alexis (: 30:34

accept this narrative that the right decision is the decision where we never ask questions. Like, where does that come from? Especially given the fact that we are taught that curiosity is a good thing, that we should be curious., but then we go to make these decisions and all of sudden we're just supposed to cut that off.

Aransas Savas (: 30:53

Right. We are conflating societal acceptance with certainty. And there's no such thing as certainty.

Alexis (: 30:59

Right. Right.

precisely.

Absolutely.

Aransas Savas (: 31:22

And actually, think part of it is creating freedom of choice for ourselves and whatever that looks like for you and knowing, again, you get to change your mind and you don't know. But we keep on the fear and we scare ourselves out of our own path by acting as though because everybody else has done it, there's some amount of certainty.

Alexis (: 31:29

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Aransas Savas (: 31:54

So you've done a lot of this choosing your own path.

And I suspect it's a muscle you're always flexing in some arena in your life. So where are you doing it now?

Alexis (: 32:06

Yeah.

That's a great question.

so in my current career, I work in human resources at a mid-size R1 university here in South Carolina. every time I step into a room, I understand that I am probably challenging someone's perception of what it means to have a, leadership position and,

I'd say relatively prestigious, of regionally prestigious organization. have my head is shaved on all sides, right? Except for in the top. I have lots of tattoos I have piercings and I have a nose ring and that part, right? I also don't...

Aransas Savas (: 33:07

You're young.

Alexis (: 33:16

code switch all the way at work. I've spent the last probably five or six years of my career really evaluating how I can show up in my work and in my life without feeling performative. And so if you know me in any space, when you see me somewhere else, there's not a complete switch up where you'll be like, man, she acts so different here. And so when I talk about going your own way, a lot of times when folks have conversations about professionalism,

Aransas Savas (: 33:28

Mmm.

Alexis (: 33:45

and what it means to show up as a polished professional in a space. I think I'm challenging the narrative about what that looks like, I engage in shenanigans and I cut up around the office in the way that I would at home. I'm thankful to be in an environment where I can do that. And it's higher ed, so it's still very highly politicized. are certainly challenging scenarios that I have to navigate, but I'm choosing to navigate them.

in the Alexis way. And so I think that is sort of the primary way that I see that showing up in my life right now. And it's interesting because I've been accepted for that and people appreciate that and people have grown to expect that level of integrity and authenticity from me. And that feels really, really good.

Aransas Savas (: 34:18

you

Mm-hmm.

This is something I work with my clients on quite often. It was certainly something I navigated in my own career. I've shared on the show before that when I first started my career, I was like really embarrassed that I had a master's in theater and everyone else had their Harvard MBAs. And I was like, I must be dumb. I should talk about Excel spreadsheets. And then I was like, they have enough of those people. They've got that covered. I'm going to bring in storytelling.

Alexis (: 34:52

Hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 35:09

all that I know about human behavior and I ended up much more successful as a result of that. And so part of what I try to help my clients unlock constantly is like, how do you bring your magic to the room? Because the other magic is covered and it's freaking exhausting to mask all the time. And yeah, there are gonna be really hard things you have to navigate, but I'd like for you to have all your energy to navigate that stuff.

Not the stuff that you're arbitrarily hiding because you're trying to fit in.

Alexis (: 35:41

Yeah. Yeah.

Aransas Savas (: 35:44

Do you get the sense that you're more successful in your work as a result of showing up as your whole self?

Alexis (: 35:58

Absolutely. So it's funny that you mentioned that. I found out that I was going to be, promoted into this role. And I remember being like, like they, they know who I am, like,

Are they sure? And I was, I was like, are they sure they want to, they want to do this? And I started thinking about all the ways that I needed to like tighten up,, my behavior so I could be taken more seriously. And so they would really believe that I was cut out for this job. And I remember having a meeting with my senior director and with my former supervisor. And she was like, we absolutely know who you are. That's, that's why you're here. And that's why we feel confident that you can do this and why we've asked you to do this. And that was,

Aransas Savas (: 36:49

Hmm.

Alexis (: 36:57

huge because I'm bringing myself to the table with all of the risks, know, people would see that as risks associated with that. Y I don't always use the best, most correct English., I'm a black girl from the South. And so sometimes,, it is what it is. It sounds like what it sounds like. And like that's, it's not only okay, but actually got me elevated.

into this space and that hasn't happened to me before. And so I can absolutely say that me showing up as my full, whole self has led to greater things.

Aransas Savas (: 37:26

Yes!

How many impactful things wouldn't you have said because you thought they didn't sound right? Or somebody else wouldn't have said them, right? Like it's like we hide our own impact And it's not just at work. It's in our relationships. You see people all the time. know, certainly the trope has long existed where,, the girl tries to look just right or sound just right for the boy. And then...

Alexis (: 37:46

Right.

Aransas Savas (: 38:04

you know when that happens with the friend, the romantic partner, the whatever, that that person, the person who's masking is never gonna trust the other person. Because even if they're beloved, it's the masked version of them that's beloved, not the real version. The real messy, chaotic, all over the place, sometimes flattering, sometimes very not flattering. That's the part that wants love.

Alexis (: 38:15

Right.

Aransas Savas (: 38:31

and acceptance and if we're not brave enough to show that professionally or right then we're just cheating ourselves out of deep connection.

Alexis (: 38:40

Yes. my gosh. Get out of my head, get out of my life because when I met my husband, so we've been together for about 12 years. And when I initially met him, I remember feeling right away that this was going to be a serious relationship. And I just had this pull in me to tell him everything, all the weird quirks, all the history of the past, because I thought if he's going to fall in love with me, he needs to fall in love with me for all of the things, right? Like he's not going to like,

be infatuated and in love with some version of myself, he's gonna know the full me. So I'm like, have this disorder, I have this weird quirk. Here's my relationship history, here's where I struggle, here are my insecurities. and some people kind of questioned me on that, like, are you sure you should have shared all that? And I knew that this was gonna be someone special. And for me, it was important.

for them to understand who they were aligning themselves with and what they were getting in a way that was not performative because I knew I didn't want to move through a life with someone like that. And so yes to everything that you're saying.

Aransas Savas (: 39:52

and

you let him do that for you Without modeling those behaviors for people and showing, hey, I trust you to show you my full self. They can't show you theirs. And then you can't really love them either. And they don't get that beautiful experience of being fully seen and known.

Alexis (: 40:01

Yeah.

Yeah.

I never even thought about it that way, but you're so right. And we've always had such a transparent relationship where we share all the things even when they're really challenging. But I think it feels less challenging because that was the precedent that we set with one another is one of, again, that word authenticity comes up, authenticity and transparency. And I think when you get to a point in your life where who you are,

is in alignment with how you show up in all of the spaces. , I'm not saying I'm perfect at it that I have it all figured out or that I'm some wise sage, but I know what that feels like in multiple areas. And so it's something that I deeply respect and can appreciate. And I'm really glad that you've brought that up because I have experienced that on such a deep level.

Aransas Savas (: 40:50

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I think you bring up another really powerful point here though, which is even when you realize how valuable and important this is, it's hard. like the stakes are huge, right?, you get to feel loved, you get like, you get to have more impact, all this amazing rewards of being fully ourselves. And yet it's Because, and not on any logical basis really.

Alexis (: 41:38

the

Right.

Aransas Savas (: 41:41

But

in that deep fear basis, it's scary to just let it all hang out and hope you're not gonna get ostracized. I mean, that is primal stuff. Like the poor guy at the, the,, early civilization who was too weird and they just left him behind while they migrated somewhere else. Nobody wants to be that guy, right?

Alexis (: 41:57

Yeah. Yes. Yes. No, we all

want to belong It's like our primal brain. we want to fit in. we are built to connect with others. And so when we're doing things that even have us have the potential to make us feel other or to place us in an other category, it's really challenging. And like, in my experience, you have days where you're more okay with it and days where

Aransas Savas (: 42:07

Yeah.

Alexis (: 42:26

Like you said, doesn't logically make sense, but you're like, man, am I, am I messing myself up here?

Aransas Savas (: 42:33

Well, that's it. You said it. You said, I recognize it. And so it's not practicing to be perfect and never masked, but practicing to recognize what it looks and feels like in you when you were showing up as your whole true self and what it looks and feels like when you're like, what is this nasty film that I've covered myself with to slide through that door?

Alexis (: 42:41

Yeah.

Aransas Savas (: 43:00

metaphor worked out a lot better than I expected to do when I started it.. It's like coating ourselves in Vaseline, right? To slip through a door that's too narrow for us. Yeah, it takes courage and it takes practice and then it takes practicing again. But every time we get more comfortable and we get truer and we find more of the places that want and need our magic.

Alexis (: 43:00

Absolutely. I love it.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Aransas Savas (: 43:27

And

we leave room open for other people and their magic when we don't want to go to the places that aren't for us.

Alexis (: 43:31

Yes,

yes, always. That's why community is so important. It's why I value the people that I have built community with like Caitlin, because she's one of those friends, right? Where there's just a realness and a genuineness in our relationship that when it's hard for me, I can lean on people like her to be supportive and be affirming,? when she sent me the link saying she had recommended me for the podcast,, I was shocked because , I'm not doing my teacher wellness work anymore., I'm just kind of showing up as my,, random self online and sharing things when I can and being transparent. But there's no sort of curated, direction to the things that I share at this point. And so it was interesting because I thought, wow, you never know what your impact is and how you truly are affecting others in a positive way from simply being you.

And I think that very much speaks to the point that you made earlier when you asked,, have you found more success? Yeah. And I've even been surprised by it.

Aransas Savas (: 44:38

Mm-hmm. Yeah. it goes back to this idea of certainty again, too, right? We don't know what our impact is. We have no idea what all the ripples are. And so all we know is how to be right and true.

I'm so glad I got to meet you.

Yeah, same. It has been so lovely talking to you. Listen, I'm a talker, so I know this could go on forever and ever, but I appreciate you holding space beyond just your patience and your grace. I just appreciate you giving me a space to talk about some of these things and for also being a mirror, I really, really am grateful.

Aransas Savas (: 45:20

I feel the same way and this is community. Even though you and I are the only ones in this little studio, all the people listening now are in this bubble with us. And they're having the same conversation with themselves in this moment of, where am I being authentic? Where am I masking to try to fit in? Where am I running from my true desires or meeting my needs in a way that look like the way you're supposed to do it because it's good?

But maybe it's not right for me. But we don't talk about that unless we talk about it. Yeah.

Alexis (: 45:51

All

Yeah, yeah, and

it's people like you who are creating spaces for those stories to be told and for those conversations to happen that really truly move that reflection and that conversation forward. So on behalf of anyone who has interfaced with you and to anyone who's listening, thank you.

Aransas Savas (: 46:15

Thank you. I'm excited to see what we discover about the impact of each of your chapters. Let's talk again in a decade and see where you are.

Alexis (: 46:23

Sounds great.