Interfaith Healing for Israel and Palestine

SPEAKER 2

Welcome to The Uplifters podcast.

I'm Aransas Savas and I'm your host.

And today I'm here with Mara Richards Bim and Mara and I have been tangentially connected since high school.

The last time we were in the same room was in the nineties.

the: 1990

with which she has done those things.

And over the last week, I got to see some of Mara's life unfold on social media and watch in awe and fear and amazement as she navigated a really tough time.

And I thought, wow, what could happen if we as an Uplifter community had a chance to connect with Mara and hear her story.

So Mara, hi.

SPEAKER 1

Hi.

SPEAKER 2

Hi, that's a long time coming.

Craziness.

So crazy.

So tell us a little about who you are and where you've been and where you are.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah.

So I worked in theater, professional theater for about 20 years, most recently.

And that's where we crossed, you know, we were on parallel tracks in New York because I was there for that.

Professional paths.

I moved back to Texas in: 2012

and in 2014 I started a theater company called Cry Havoc Theater Company.

show about guns in America in: 2018

families who lost kids at Sandy Hook and then we went to DC and then we went to the NRA convention.

So I was on this path of doing theater and making really difficult work.

The year after that particular show, we did a show about the crisis at the Southern border and we went and just had just the most crazy experience.

We

got access to teens from a detention facility, which nobody gets access to.

And, and so when I came back from that trip, I had already been thinking that I wanted to do something else with my life that, you know, theater was not the final thing.

And one of the things that I noticed in these shows we were making was the role that Christian nationalism plays in a lot of these topics.

And I grew up in the church, but left the church for a while.

Now that I was a mom, I took my daughter to church, but the United Methodist Church, but I didn't really know a lot.

g classes here in the fall of: 2021

And

I have since left the theater company.

You know, the pandemic also made it difficult to keep doing theater.

And I've continued on this path at Perkins.

I'm now on the path to ordination as a deacon in the United Methodist Church.

And I'm in my third year of seminary.

And part of that third year is you have to do an internship.

So a lot of people choose to do internships at churches and things like that.

I specifically wanted to work in the interfaith space.

So I am volunteering, interning with a group called Faith Commons.

It's run by Rabbi Nancy Kasten and Reverend George Mason, and we facilitate interreligious conversations.

And one of the things that we were doing was a dual narrative trip to Israel and Palestine.

And so I left with my mom from Dallas, Texas on

Friday, October 6th, and we landed in Tel Aviv on Saturday, October 7th at about five o'clock local time, their time.

And we were the last flight that was allowed in because war had already broken out.

And I didn't know any of this.

I flipped on my phone to text my husband and say we were there.

And, and that's when I found out and everything just kind of blew up from there.

SPEAKER 2

Unreal.

It was unreal.

The timing.

of this that at that moment you were in the air space arriving into the heart of the conflict as it was happening.

What do you see in that?

SPEAKER 1

Well, I want to work in interfaith dialogue and so this was really throwing me in the middle of what is going to be a very long difficult conversation between

different people groups and different religions for for a very long time.

Yeah, so we when we landed, it had been decided that it would be safest because at that point Hamas was still shooting rockets towards Tel Aviv towards the airport.

So it was decided that we would take our

There were a total of 15 of us.

So we were going to go to the hotel that we were to stay at in West Jerusalem and sort of figure out what happened next and how to leave.

And who's advising you at this point?

Well, so at that point, the Mejdi is a travel organization that facilitates these dual narrative conversations.

So had we been able to do our trip,

We would have had both a Palestinian guide and an Israeli guide.

We would have been in and out of the West Bank.

We would have been meeting with a lot of peace activists on both sides.

It was really meant to be this opportunity to learn what was happening there in the background of the conflict.

And Mehdi was the one at that point who said, let's go to the hotel and then we'll figure things out from there.

And then we got to the hotel, which is about 45 minutes away.

And because I am a student at SMU, they tracked me down.

And so my path kind of veers differently from the rest of the group after that.

I did have my mom with me.

My mom had never been to Israel and I had, I actually went earlier this year in January, both to Israel and the West Bank, multiple places.

So SMU contacted me and said, first of all,

They contacted me and they said, we have this director of global security, we want to take over your arranging for you and your mom to get out of there.

And they needed my permission to do that.

And so I said, Okay, without really, you know, because we still didn't know, like, how big this was gonna be.

And part of me was like, Oh, like, really, maybe, maybe we just stick around for a little bit.

But again, we did, we're not getting all the information at that point.

And so they took it over and hired, I mean, it's out of a movie, hired one of these global security firms run by ex Marines that took over.

And I had to check in with them every four hours and they put a plan together to get me out of the country.

We did fly out of Tel Aviv about 48 hours after we arrived.

And initially Hamas was not shooting rockets at Jerusalem.

So.

We heard constantly throughout the day and night, we heard rockets going off because we were only 40 miles from Gaza.

But the sirens never went off and we never had to take shelter until the last day we were there.

And at that point Hamas started shooting towards Jerusalem.

The hotel was taking care of us.

Nothing was open.

There was a pizza place open across the street so we could get pizza.

Mejdi did have a local tour guide who came over Sunday afternoon and basically took us on a little walk just around our hotel just so we could get air and then Monday morning we woke up and the rest of the group it had been decided they were going to get out via Jordan and they were going to get flights out of Amman

and they weren't going to do that until Tuesday or Wednesday but when we woke up and went to breakfast Monday morning Mehdi was like we're leaving now like we're going to Jordan now we have to get out now and so we very kind of like gave them 30 minutes to go pack their bags and and so me and my mom are waiting on our security team to take us to Tel Aviv our flight was that night and so we were left at the hotel and so while we were there that's when

Hamas started shooting towards Jerusalem and the sirens would go off and we would go into the bomb shelter.

And I'm glad we got out when we did.

And I think for both me and my mom, it didn't really like coming back.

It took us a few days to like, it was all such a whirlwind and a lot of disappointment.

I love Israel.

I love the people.

I loved places that we visited in January in the West Bank.

People think of Israel and the West Bank as being these two very distinct places, but cities in the West Bank, you go in and out of the West Bank, right?

You're on a road in Israel, and then you are suddenly in the West Bank, and then you're out again into Israel.

And so it's all very intermingled.

And my heart just breaks for everybody.

SPEAKER 2

So let's talk about what you were going there to do.

SPEAKER 1

Certainly,

Israel, that plot of land has and continues to be a holy land for many faiths, right?

So Christians, Muslims and Jews identify it as holy land and important to each of their faiths.

And yet there's all this conflict over the land.

And peace has eluded the Israelis and Palestinians

since the creation of the state of Israel and we were going to understand that more.

We were going to also we're seeing or up until the attack we were seeing in Israel this rise of Jewish nationalism that also kind of mirrors this rise of Christian nationalism in the United States and this and and so we were also hoping to bring back

something, you know, some sort of learnings about that and how we in this country continue to ensure religious liberty for everyone and not a preference for a specific religious identity.

Faith Commons, it's all about communication and dialogue and bringing people together for the common good.

And so that's what the trip was about.

SPEAKER 2

These are the moments we look back on and point to to say, see, yeah, for

Years, decades and generations.

SPEAKER 1

When I returned here, it's kind of in a fog for a couple of days, but something that I noticed immediately on my social media feed, because I have worked in the social justice space with the plays I created, that's what comes up on my feed.

And what I noticed was a lot of people on the left, almost reveling in the fact that this

massacre happened to Israelis, that it was somehow justified.

And I was shocked by that.

And so then I started engaging on social media.

And I've sort of entered that space to really try and parse out and not that anybody listens to anybody on social media, but it's been therapeutic for me anyway, to parse out that, well, first of all, what Hamas did was horrific.

And we're still getting the details of that.

And Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people, like they are not the whole of the Palestinian people.

And people can have legitimate grievances with the Israeli government.

But I think anyone who is joyful about civilians being slaughtered and kidnapped and tortured and you know, any number of things

I don't have a lot of patience for that.

But it's also same on the other side, right?

Right now we are seeing an unrestrained response from Israel that is also killing a lot of civilians.

So I'm finding myself personally, I am, you know, as somebody who wants to work in the interfaith space, and who's the mother of a seven year old, and all of that was going through my mind as I was trying to get back to the States.

I think it's important that we, it's important for me,

that I continue to speak into this space that killing is wrong.

It doesn't matter who it is, that Hamas is a terrorist organization and they need to be dealt with like they need to go away.

But we also need to be conscious of the fact that they do not represent all of the Palestinian people.

And I've never been to Gaza, but Gaza specifically, those folks can't leave in there.

They there's no road out and the one road out through Egypt has been closed.

So

When the Israeli government says, you know, get out of the way, we're about to start bombing, there's really nowhere to go.

So it's a horrible, difficult situation right now.

And I have such tremendous empathy and compassion for both my Jewish friends and my Muslim friends.

SPEAKER 2

Even beyond murder, hate is wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's been such a steep rise globally.

Correct.

Yeah.

And Islamophobia and anti-Semitism over the last weeks.

And the death is awful and irrevocable.

But the hatred is something millions of people around the world are experiencing and suffering from simultaneously.

Yeah.

And then the hate that leads to the war.

Yeah.

Given what you know now, how would you like to have that interfaith conversation?

SPEAKER 1

I am of the belief that people of faith, each faith is its own path to God.

And one faith is not more true than another.

So I think I would focus on what brings us together.

All the world's religions speak of compassion and kindness and love and care for the poor and the sick and the, you know, all the world's religions speak to that.

And I think that that's a starting place.

We have to start from what brings us together.

The rabbi I work with, Nancy Keston, she invited to her home earlier this week, a couple of

Palestinian they're from Palestine and they're living here and a couple of Jewish friends and they just kind of lamented together and that may be what it takes.

I've done some training in doing racial healing circles here in the United States.

We have our own problem with division in this country right and certainly with racism and relationships between races and part of doing healing circles is

listening without interrupting and without just listening to listen not to answer to someone else's pain.

I think that's a good place to start in these interreligious conversations is listening to people's pain over this situation and others.

SPEAKER 2

Mm hmm.

Beyond beliefs or interpretations.

Right.

To hear the human experience.

and you're sitting in rooms of people who I imagine are saying this is catastrophic for the individuals who are directly affected but it's also catastrophic for the unification of these these communities and yeah for building trust and so what are you all seeing

as the potential paths forward?

SPEAKER 1

That is such a hard question.

I mean my personal opinion is that it is going to take the United States government playing a role in bringing these two sides together and not just the U.S.

but the U.S.

is kind of a leader in that conversation.

I think that it is true

The United States has been a strong, strong ally to Israel as it should be.

I sometimes think, even in friendships, we need to be able to say the hard things to our friends.

And the United States government has been unwilling to say the hard things to the Israeli government about how they are treating Palestinians.

And because of that, a lot of countries and people in the Middle East see us as dishonest brokers, like, and so

I think it's going to take really leading and having difficult, difficult conversations with, with both sides and bringing the countries together to really try and hold these two people groups that have suffered so, so much in the last couple of weeks and generations, right?

This didn't start on the 7th and it flares every few years, but I think

This is so catastrophic on both sides that I just think that the US is going to have to be part of the conversation and healing.

And I think faith communities have a place for that, whatever faith, right?

Like, let's get some Buddhists in there, right?

I just feel like we need everybody on deck on this one.

SPEAKER 2

Your point about having to have conversations with friends is so poignant and being an integrity to create trust and this idea that it is not just two groups responsibility to address this.

It's a global issue.

SPEAKER 1

It is.

And especially, I think, because this place is the center for so many religious traditions.

So it's more than just land

It's more than just some olive grove.

For people of faith that hold that land sacred, it is also catastrophic whether they're there or not and trying to figure out how can we have peace in this place that so many religious traditions call home.

SPEAKER 2

Yes, and how vital it is specifically to find peace there.

Yeah, because it's the roots of the trees.

Yeah.

So you have been through personally an epic journey.

We talk a lot about what it means to be an Uplifter here.

And it's especially important in our hardest times in life.

And for so many, these last two weeks have been some of the hardest times of their lives.

And I imagine for you, it would rank pretty high up there.

So I am curious what you did to take care of yourself over this last week.

SPEAKER 1

So I saw therapists almost immediately.

Yep.

I am a, a firm believer that in the power of therapy.

So I saw a therapist.

I did not set any expectations for myself.

I told SMU, I wasn't coming back to classes until this week.

And I played video games and I, um, on the flight back, we got out of Tel Aviv and they,

popped us in Istanbul and and then we took the flight the next day from Istanbul to Dallas and I watched Avenger movies the whole way because there's clear good guys, clear bad guys and so I've also done that this weekend.

I went back and watched some more Avenger movies and just kind of took my time.

I rested.

I just took care of my physical self and gave myself space to not have expectations for myself.

And so today is actually my first day back on campus.

And I specifically chose to come back today.

I went to a chapel service this morning so that that was my first sort of entry back into the campus.

And we have a community lunch here.

So it was nice to sit in community with people and, and then I'm gonna go to class after this.

I think community is really important right now.

And I, as I was both over there and sort of making my way back and

And then when I got here, people reaching out and just saying, I'm thinking of you is super helpful.

I'm a mom to a seven-year-old who is a little bundle of joy, like she's a sunny child.

And so finding moments of joy with her and seeing life through her eyes and seeing that joy has also been soothing for my soul.

SPEAKER 2

How beautiful.

It sounds like you're giving yourself what you need.

And I think so often in the toughest times, we can have a tendency to retreat and withhold what we really need.

And so I think what you're reminding us here is to nurture and nourish ourselves.

I almost picture like saturating ourselves in the nutrients that we need.

so that we can just absorb as much as possible in these really, these very vulnerable times.

It's almost like our pores are super open that we can just lather it on right now.

Because otherwise what's going to seep in is just grit and grime and shame and fear.

SPEAKER 1

100%.

I would piggybacking on what you just said.

I think that for so many of us, our hearts are open now.

in a way that they are not seeing this kind of violence and pain.

And I would never say that the tragedy, you know, is worth that.

But what a gift for those of us who, I don't know, have been unempathetic to other people, whatever the other is, right?

What an opportunity to sit with an open heart and

Recognize that we're all human.

I hope that this is a moment that people seize to really live in love for the rest of humankind for just a moment.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, because we can't undo this moment.

It happened.

SPEAKER 1

No.

Yeah, it happened.

Yeah.

SPEAKER 2

But we don't have to repeat it.

Correct.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah.

SPEAKER 2

We can learn from it.

We can gain from it in terms of having greater empathy and understanding.

Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

And we can be part of the healing.

SPEAKER 2

Oh, Mara, let's do this before another 30 years pass.

Is that how I wait?

I don't know math.

SPEAKER 1

I think that's right.

Yeah, there was recently a reunion that I did not go to.

SPEAKER 2

Same.

I mean, who needs reunions if you've got Facebook and a podcast so you can just meet people one on one.

Right.

SPEAKER 1

Love it.

SPEAKER 2

When I talked about before what I've seen in your work, it is the full essence of what it means to be an Uplifter.

And by that, what I mean is the courage to walk into difficult situations, to provoke connection and understanding, and to inspire courage in others to do the same.

And that through line seems so strong in your work.

And in this moment, you were put in a place to see it in a very different way.

But it is no different from what I have seen and the way you have lived your life and chosen to invest your incredible light and energy.

So thank you for all you do in the world.

Thank you for being here, for sharing this story.

Thank you.

Here's to more love.

SPEAKER 1

Yes, more love and more joy and compassion.

SPEAKER 2

Yes, yes, yes.

Uplifters, let's keep having the courageous conversations.

Let's keep being the bridges.

There's so much in this world that will point out our differences, but we get to be the ones who can show the sameness and can help us really see each other.

Let's keep rising higher together.

Thank you for listening to The Uplifters podcast.

If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with The Uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation over at the uplifterspodcast.com.

Head over to Spotify, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show.

It'll really help us connect with more Uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories.

SPEAKER 3

Big love.

Painted water sunshine with rosemary and thyme Dwell in the perplexing though you find it vexing Toss a star and huffer, be your own best luffer Relish in a new prime, plant a tree in springtime Dance with idle hindsight, bring the sun to twilight

SPEAKER 4

Lift you up, whoa Lift you up, whoa Lift you up, whoa Lift you up Lift you up, whoa Lift you up

Beautiful.

I cried.

It's that little thing you did with your voice.

Right, in the pre-chorus, right?

SPEAKER 2

I was like... Mommy, stop crying.

You're disturbing the peace.