Breaking Barriers with the 1st Female NFL Ref, Shannon Eastin

Aransas Savas (: 00:03

Welcome to the Uplifters podcast. I'm your host, Aranza Savas, and today I'm joined by Shannon Easton. From a young age, Shannon was one of those girls who was strong and fiercely competitive and driven by a belief that she not only could but should be the best at whatever she put her mind to, including achieving her dream job referee for the NFL.

Shannon Eastin (: 00:26

Thank you.

Aransas Savas (: 00:32

And in her new book, Lady Ref, Making Calls in a Man's World, she shares her journey to becoming the first woman to work as an NFL official. Throughout the book, she offers so many incredible practical lessons for the rest of us who maybe didn't dream of being an NFL ref, but do dream of pursuing our passions and reaching our goals without compromising. Shannon.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Shannon Eastin (: 01:04

Thank you, Aransas, for having me. I appreciate it.

Aransas Savas (: 01:07

So when did this dream begin for you?

Shannon Eastin (: 01:12

My dream of becoming an NFL official did not begin until I was 26 years old. Prior to that, I never thought about officiating, but, uh, I was thinking I was going to go the avenue of coaching and was coaching kids playing basketball at a Christian athlete ministries camp. And in between coaching our kids, we had a referee them as well. And the first time I blew the whistle, it was like that light bulb moment.

that I said, why didn't I ever think about this? This is exactly what I wanna do. That's where it began.

Aransas Savas (: 01:48

What was it about that moment Shannon that felt so different?

Shannon Eastin (: 01:54

I think it's coaching is a little, it's very emotional. It's challenging. I have to hand it to coaches because keeping those kids positive when they're losing and keeping them level headed when they're winning, but officiating, you take all the emotion out of it and you just have to call the game. And it doesn't matter who wins or loses. You just have to step up and make the right call.

Aransas Savas (: 02:19

Do you think of yourself as somebody who is more rule systems and process oriented and less emotion and gut oriented?

Shannon Eastin (: 02:32

I think I'm both because I'm definitely, I'm the girl who cries at every Hallmark commercial and movie and so I definitely have my emotional side for sure but when it comes to officiating, to be a good official you have to take the emotions out. When I talk to younger officials, I let them know, the game itself is so emotional from the coaches, the parents, the players that as officials, we cannot go down that same emotional roller coaster, we have to be the one component.

that stays, keeps our emotions out of it. Because if we don't, then we have nothing but chaos. And I tell people, if you can't do that, then officiating is not the right place for you. And it's definitely not for everyone.

Aransas Savas (: 03:16

Yeah, I don't imagine. I don't think it's easy for most people to turn off their emotions. And I'll be honest here and admit that I know probably less about football than just about any human on the planet, despite having grown up in Dallas with the Dallas Cowboys and being married to a huge Patriots fan. And I think still though, the thing I would most associate with the role that you're talking about

is anger and frustration and challenge and lots of really big intense emotions being hurled at you. And so how do you quiet your own emotions and stay calm in the middle of that storm?

Shannon Eastin (: 04:07

I think you just, it's a challenge you accept when you decide to be an official. And you have to, you have to stay professional no matter what. You don't have an option. And again, if it's something that you cannot turn that off and it's hard, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say that it's always easy. There's times that you want to react because who likes to be attacked, but we have tools, we have tools to use.

crossing that line and that boundary, we have in football, we have a flag we can throw. In basketball, we have a technical foul. So it's not like we're out there with no tools to handle those situations, but the most, the greatest tool you can use is communication to try to diffuse situations prior to getting to that point. But if coaches, players cross those lines, we have the ability to insert ourselves when needed.

Aransas Savas (: 05:09

Shannon, that sounds like the greatest life lesson of them all right there. Because how many of us haven't wished that we had ways of more directly communicating our needs and expectations. And when our boundaries are crossed in our relationships with our spouses and our children and our colleagues and in every arena in life, to be able to say, I'm holding up the flag. You've just crossed a boundary that breaks my rules.

Shannon Eastin (: 05:44

Yeah, if only we could throw a flag on our husbands and our spouses and that would be something fun and interesting for sure.

Aransas Savas (: 05:54

And I feel like we kind of learn to do that, right? And I have to imagine that by learning how to stay true to your rules, your boundaries in your work, it had to have followed into how you live your life.

Shannon Eastin (: 06:13

Definitely. I think it is important to stay true to yourself and I'm not like I said earlier. It's not always easy It's not always easy officiating isn't is not for everyone. But for me the number one thing that has helped me through everything is faith in God and The second thing that has helped me through everything is just being surrounded with some great people Everybody has challenges. Everybody has obstacles women

man it doesn't matter you're going to meet resistance in different areas of your life and you can only control what you can control and as long as you do that the chips are going to fall where they're going to fall and what's meant to happen is going to happen.

so how did you end up in the NFL, Shannon? What was the st ory of how that happened?

Shannon Eastin (: 27:12

So in 2012 when the officials were locked out, I got an email from one of the scouts. I'd been on the scouting list with the NFL for many, many years. And I got an email saying, would you be interested in working? And to be honest with you, I was just about ready to throw in the towel and just say I had done what I could do. And funny thing is I said, I won't get a dog until I'm done officiating. And I had just got a dog. So I was really close to just being like, I'm done.

And so I was like, I'm not going back to the MIAC another year, that East Coast travel, I'm just done. And so I said, if no other door's open, then I think I just need to say I've done what I can do and just, just be done with it. And I got that email and I'm like, you know what? It's perfect timing. I got to go for it. It's going to be, um, something that everybody is going to be happy with me about because of quote, crossing that line. But for me, the timing was right. And.

And I wish people could understand that every person has to make the decision that's right for them. And in that moment, that was the decision that was right for me. And so, worked and then worked preseason, a few games in regular season, and then there was a situation that happened with a cat. It was a fateful night for all of us that was a situation that happened. And we knew right after that, we were all going to be done.

And so I don't need to get into that game, but I wasn't on the game. But after that, we knew it was coming to an end for us. And after that ended, there was a few of us that the NFL had identified as people that they would potentially want to hire back. I was one of those people. And so I had a lot of support in the NFL office. They helped me get back into the MIAC because all of us that decided to work were pretty much the Mideastern Athletic Conference, which that was the conference I was the referee in.

Aransas Savas (: 29:00

What's the Miac?

Shannon Eastin (: 29:06

So the NFL helped me get back into that conference so that I could continue to work while they were working to get me back into the NFL so that I wasn't just sitting home. And one by one, my support system from the NFL left the NFL office. Carl Johnson, who hired me, he went back on the field. And Ray Anderson, who was the VP at that time, he took a job at Arizona State University. So unfortunately,

The gentleman who came in after them that was responsible for making the hiring decisions, he was an official that was locked out at the time that we worked and we were pretty much poker term drawing dead at that point. So we were done.

Aransas Savas (: 30:19

Oh my gosh, that had to have been heartbreaking to go and live your dream and to see this opportunity unfolding and then feel like your access slipped away. How did you mentally recover from that or process it?

Shannon Eastin (: 30:46

I think it just goes back to everything happens for a reason. I can't figure everything out. I don't, I even, I think I say it in my book. I don't know why I got in, did well, proved myself, proved I belong, and then have it all end in the blink of an eye. But again, maybe it was because it was more important for me to break that glass ceiling, and it was more important for me to write this story. Maybe that was what I was quote called to do. And...

Maybe God also knew, maybe I wouldn't have been happy in the NFL. There's so many different things, you know? You just don't know.

Aransas Savas (: 31:28

We really don't, and we can't replay or rewrite history, but we can use the opportunities we're given and create something really powerful out of them.

Aransas Savas (: 06:58

in the book you tell this horrifying story of being assaulted physically by a football commissioner who was your boss at the time. And I've heard you on other interviews say what I interpreted as being essentially a message of, yeah, that was horrible, and yeah.

That happened and we all face obstacles and we all have bad moments but can we take the attention and the energy off that bad apple and come back to all the people who helped me.

Shannon Eastin (: 07:41

Absolutely. I like to say it's a lot about perspective and there are far worse things. Yeah, what I went through, no man, woman, child ever should have to go through that, but you know what? There are far worse things that just keep those moments in perspective that you can get through them. And like I said, I made a lot, and you're gonna read my book, I made a lot of mistakes and God was there with me through them all and I had great support. So.

as much as I had to tell those stories in the book because people want to know and it is part of the story, there are so many other people that just completely blessed my life and helped me in ways that I can't thank them enough for.

Aransas Savas (: 08:31

it was very courageous for you to tell that story. And I'm sure telling it caused you to relive it But how important that you did because it allows

other people to acknowledge the fact that pursuing our goals and dreams is not some grand easy journey across a field of flowers. With the doors opening in front of us each time, we approach them. But rather that, yeah, some doors will open, some will close, and we just keep going.

Shannon Eastin (: 09:16

Absolutely. And there were a lot of doors that closed for me. There's no doubt about that, but you just move on to the next door and keep trying to battle your way through it. And it's, you know, hard work, perseverance. there's no dream that's too big if you work hard to achieve those dreams.

I can't stress enough how important it is to surround yourself with good people because that is something that your family, your friends, and I'll be honest with you, throughout my journey, I didn't have a great balance in my life with family. I just didn't. Everything for me was full steam ahead on what I wanted to do, but even when I wasn't the best daughter or friend, I had a lot of people that were...

standing by my side So going back to the start, what is it about the way you grew up that you believe helped cultivate the woman that you've become?

Shannon Eastin (: 10:49

I talk a lot about my dad because of the love of football I got from him, but I think my mom was really instrumental in, as a young child, she was all in on everything I wanted to do. And I never heard, I was never someone that heard, you can't do it. Now when I wanted to play football, she said, absolutely not. But in everything else I did, she was my greatest cheerleader. There was nothing that I wanted to do where she said, that's crazy.

you're barking up the wrong tree. It was, she was probably more the other side of it where it was just fast, you know, everything I needed, she was there for me and making sure I had the best training, taking me all over the country to compete in the sports I was competing in. my mom, I think...

really helped me to set my mind on the fact that I could do anything I wanted to do.

Aransas Savas (: 11:52

It's interesting that you say that because I had the chance to meet Mark Zuckerberg's mom once. And she created three trailblazing children. And every one of those kids in their fields has had massive global historic impact. And so I was really interested how she would answer that question about how she cultivated that courage in her children. And it was the exact same answer, Shannon.

She said, whatever they were interested in, I just supported and encouraged, and I used my energy and resources to help them make it happen.

Shannon Eastin (: 12:33

Hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 12:34

And I think there's something so powerful in that lesson for all of us.

Shannon Eastin (: 12:38

We need more great moms, huh?

Aransas Savas (: 12:41

We need more great moms and to be mentors for one another because we all have that potential in us to show that sense of support and encouragement, to not be the one who says your dream is crazy, but to be the one who says that dream may be crazy, but I believe you can do it.

Shannon Eastin (: 13:05

You hit it on the head when you said we need more great mentors

Aransas Savas (: 13:28

And it is the first woman at your level in your field. I have to assume you did not have a woman to mentor you. So what kind of support and encouragement did you get from others in your field?

Shannon Eastin (: 13:43

I had tremendous support. There were people I met at camps that just kind of blew me away that they saw me work and they just wanted to do anything they could to help me. Red Cashion is one I talked about. Red was an icon. He was a legend. And the first time I met him, he's like, whatever I can do to help you, Shannon. And I was like, wow.

You know, I'm kind of a little starstruck over meeting Red Cashion and he's telling me whatever I can do to help you. And I ran into other NFL officials, college officials, people in my life that said the same thing. And unfortunately, Red is not alive to read the book. I really wish he was because that is one huge reason why I wanted this to be in writing this whole story is because people like Red and Johnny Greer and

Jerry Markbright and unfortunately Johnny has passed away as well. the extra mile they went for me, it's mind blowing.

Aransas Savas (: 14:53

And I think it is a reminder too, that it is everyone's opportunity and responsible to help women rise higher and to break ground. Both men and women sit in the potential seat to make that difference and have that influence.

Shannon Eastin (: 15:26

Absolutely. I mean the term pay it forward it seems simple but got to do it you got to give back and you got to help others that are coming up behind you and I hope and pray that I do just that and really support the people that are coming up behind me the way that I... So in my business I am responsible to assign sports officials primarily

Aransas Savas (: 15:45

What does that look like for you Shannon?

Shannon Eastin (: 15:54

but I also do enjoy mentoring and training them as well. Now, unfortunately my job is very busy, so I don't get out to see officials as much as I used to. And that is one of my favorite things. I love to be there. The first time an official walks on the field for their very first game, I remember my very first game. And I remember how hard it was to do one or two tiny little things so I can relate. And I just, I love to be there for that moment for them because I'm like, don't worry about it. It's gonna, right now you,

You can't seem to count 11 players on offense, but in three plays, trust me, that would be a piece of cake. You can move on to something else and just the mistakes that you see them make. I remember making every single one of them myself. And it's funny because I was very hard on myself and I see officials that are very hard on themselves and I'm like, don't worry about it, you know, next time, just make a different mistake and, and learn from it and move on. So I love, I love that part of it. And, um, I, it's probably my favorite part of what I get to do now.

Aransas Savas (: 16:56

it makes sense given how much you appreciated and valued that in your own journey. So we've had the incredible gift of talking to a number of trailblazing women on this podcast. We've talked to the first female, first black, first openly gay commercial pilot in America. We've talked to the first female and openly gay chaplain for the fire department of New York. So many incredible trailblazing women.

When I've talked to them, one of the things that's really shocked me or surprised me is that they didn't know they were trailblazing. So when did you realize that by moving into the role of NFL rep, you, NFL ref, you would be the first woman in that space?

Shannon Eastin (: 17:53

I mean, I hoped that I would be the first. I seem to be on track for that to be a possibility. It's funny that you asked that question because people always say, oh, don't you know you're a trailblazer? Yeah, in my head, I know it when people tell it to me, but I don't think about myself that way. I'm glad I was able to do what I did and to do a good job in 2012 so that had a woman got in and not been successful.

ee and I'm thinking, well, in: 2012

Shannon Eastin (: 19:02

Mm-hmm.

Aransas Savas (: 19:17

What gave you the courage to walk through doors that no woman had walked through before?

I always said, playing the NFL, no possibility. I could not do that. But being an NFL official, there was never a doubt in my mind. And I don't mean that to sound cocky, but it just seems like something that was completely within my reach. And I'm very realistic about my abilities.

and it was something that I knew all along that I had the ability to do. Wherever that came from, within God, the people around me, I believed it was a goal I could reach.

Aransas Savas (: 20:15

probably some combo of that, right? It's the whole nature nurture. And I love that word cocky because I feel like it almost juxtaposes this confidence that you have. So what I heard you say is something I think a lot of us women say is, I know what I'm good at. I know my capabilities.

don't necessarily feel comfortable saying them, because I don't want it to come across as being braggy And that's a really hard line to walk. And I find it sort of exhausting to try to walk that. And so I've actually been challenging myself to just say, this is what I'm good at.

Because I feel like that's part of how I get to show up and be a mentor to other women is to acknowledge my gifts without fear or shame or embarrassment. It's something I learned from Mla Sword, the first guest on this show. as I hear you, I'm reminded too that even trailblazers, have the same fears that the rest of us do.

Shannon Eastin (: 21:42

I think that fear is what stops a lot of people from even trying. And I'm not going to say I didn't struggle with fear. I did, but I was able to press through it. Aransas Savas (22:00.984)

What did some of those fear voices sound like?

Shannon Eastin (: 22:04

I struggle a lot in my mind. I had enough great voices around me that helped me in those times when you start to doubt and you start to go, oh, is it time to throw in the towel? I think those people really helped me to push past.

some of the things that were going on in my head.

Aransas Savas (: 22:40

Yeah, and we all need that, don't we? Those other voices to challenge the limiting voices we don't have to overcome all of those limiting voices and fears, but rather we just have to surround ourselves with other people who challenge them.

what do you hope people learn from your story, Shannon?

Shannon Eastin (: 23:20

to dream big, work hard, and to trust God. And control the things you can control, and things will work out how they're supposed to work out. People ask me all the time, are you disappointed that even though it looked like you were going to get back in the NFL, you didn't? And of course there's going to be disappointment and heartbreak. But

If things had worked out differently, I potentially could still be working on the field and the story doesn't get written right now and maybe this was the time when the story was supposed to come out. So all I can do is trust that the pieces fell where they were supposed to fall and we're going to make the most of it no matter what.

Aransas Savas (: 24:12

that idea of trusting perfect timing is also really comforting. What made you believe that this was the moment to write this book?

Shannon Eastin (: 24:27

I had to make sure that every last potential opportunity to get back into the NFL was, every door was shut because had I tried to write the story prior to that, I couldn't tell the entire story. So it was really that was part of the timing. And then I'd been keeping notes for years and years and years and in the back of my head and really people were telling me all the time, you need to write a book, you need to write a book. And I had that in the back of my mind.

But it wasn't until I did an interview with Mark McLoone years ago, and after the cameras stopped rolling, Mark said, Shannon, you need to write a book. And I was like, Mark, I hear that all the time. And it's like, no, I'm serious. You need to get this done. And I'll tell you, that was what spurred me to finally go, you know what, he's right. Story needs to be told. I need to get it done. So that was the moment that I finally made the decision. I needed to do it.

stop talking about it and just do it.

It's an interesting theme in your story that there are these voices that come to you and they say, hey, Shannon, you're good at this, or hey, Shannon, this is the moment, and you get the boost that you need to move from one place to the other through those messages, whether it was your mentors who are referees or this person who encouraged you to write a book.

or your parents even. And so it makes sense of course that so much of your story is about surrounding yourself with the people who lift you up. And it's frankly why we have this whole podcast is because there's so many voices of dissent and discouragement out in the world. And I just have this fundamental belief that if we saturate the airwaves with wonderful stories of people overcoming fears and...

encouraging one another and lifting one another up, we all will rise higher together. It's amazing what you're doing, truly.

Aransas Savas (: 26:38

it lifts me up. It is the most beautiful and full circle thing.

Aransas Savas (: 31:51

What do you hope your legacy is in this work, Shannon?

Shannon Eastin (: 31:55

Yeah, you know, it's really more, probably has nothing to do with football. Has nothing to do with breaking that glass ceiling. It's more about life and just giving back, being a kind person and valuing people. That's more important than anything I could have done getting into the NFL.

Aransas Savas (: 32:23

Every one of us, no matter what our dreams are, has that opportunity. And just like you, every one of us has the opportunity to not rewrite history, but to write our own story. And I'm so grateful that you chose to tell your story.

Shannon Eastin (: 32:42

Love that.

Aransas Savas (: 32:48

and that you provide in that story a model for each of us to go after our dreams courageously, to keep showing up, to do the hard work, whether we know what's going to come of it or not, but because we love it, and because it's what we want, and that's enough. I know I will carry your words and your wisdom with me week after week as we make this podcast. And I'm so glad.

that the other uplifters out there have your wings to ride on now as they're facing their own challenges and hurdles. Thank you.

Shannon Eastin (: 33:28

Thank you for those kind words. That is, that's very heartwarming. I really appreciate it.

Aransas Savas (: 33:35

Thank you for being here, Shannon. And for all of you uplifters out there, hold on to these words. Let Shannon and her story put a little wind in your story.

Shannon Eastin (: 33:51

Well said.