Why Your Team Keeps Having the Same Fight (And How to Finally Fix It)

TUP EP 120

Aransas Savas: [: 00:00:00

She has been hired by all sorts of powerhouse organizations, Microsoft, Starbucks. You know, well, Tony Robbins, no big deal to [00:00:45] solve the relationship. Challenges that stall progress in big, complex settings. The frustrating cycles of miscommunication and broken trust and patterns that just won't budge often get [00:01:00] so freaking big that we just abandoned them and accept them as fact, and we stop trying.

dmap for actually getting in [: 00:01:15

Again, no big deal. I'm so excited to share. Carrie's work with you today, but [00:01:45] also to share Carrie with you, so precious. Wonderful. Amazing. Carrie, thank you for being here on the Uplifters.

. Thank you for including me [: 00:02:00

Thank you.

no matter how high we rise, [: 00:02:15

Carey Davidson: I have been a lifetime student of [00:02:30] why people get stuck. Same, and specifically in relationships.

y. We fall in love real easy [: 00:02:45

In my first career was hr, and I thought, Ooh, people, I'm gonna figure it out. And I was just shown a poopoo bladder [00:03:15] all the ways it could go wrong, and I didn't have any solution. So I kept. I kept trying to look in different places, places where other people maybe weren't looking. I mean, who's looking at ancient Chinese, five elements, wisdom to [00:03:30] solve HR issues.

I'm a little bit weirdo ish like that, finding like maybe this'll work there. So that's kind of how I got here.

u saw a big problem. And you [: 00:03:45

Carey Davidson: I'm not one to accept what your teacher tells you is true, [00:04:00] right?

straight A's. I didn't get, [: 00:04:15

Aransas Savas: With teachers, presumably? Yeah, with teachers.

Carey Davidson: And I have one of those,

Aransas Savas: I actually have two of those children.

Carey Davidson: Yeah, [: 00:04:30

The Chinese perspective, the Ayurvedic perspective, Eastern models of how do we change behavior, how [00:05:00] do we improve? They're based in nature. They're based in balance. They're based in systems thinking. It's not reductionist in the Western model. We reduce things to their tiniest piece and then cut it out or medicate it, which is [00:05:15] really important in many situations.

I just felt like there needed to be something more, because what happens when we have those subtle problems that eat away at us for years?

h the lens of chronic versus [: 00:05:30

Carey Davidson: I was looking for solutions for subtler problems. Like I, I know if I have a sore throat or if I have an infection.

I know I can go to my doctor. I know how to take care of that. Yeah.

Aransas Savas: A symptom.

Carey Davidson: But how do I [: 00:05:45

Aransas Savas: mm-hmm.

m-hmm. Or I have anxiety and [: 00:06:00

Giving me tools and skills or a script that I can practice to get better at something. I don't wanna dive deep into my childhood. I was just feeling like there what was [00:06:15] out there wasn't what was gonna help me, and so I was looking for something else and I really found it.

this was different than what [: 00:06:30

Carey Davidson: The Chinese medicine five elements perspective is about creating a strong immune system. It's proactive, it's getting out in front of things that might happen to strengthen your core so that when [00:06:45] the wind knocks you over. And you know, boss yells at you or whatever, relationship goes sideways. You're not taking it personally and thrown completely outta whack.

hold yourself still and stay [: 00:07:00

So it's, it's establishing [00:07:30] a mental and physical immune system because storms are gonna happen. It's gonna rain. News What? I should carry an umbrella all the time. That's a good metaphor. Five archetypes is your, [00:07:45] is your insurance umbrella so you don't get wet. Right,

etypes so that we understand [: 00:08:00

Carey Davidson: The five archetypes correspond to the five elements in, in Chinese medicine, different forces that we all have that help us thrive in the face of change. [00:08:15] Our adaptive strengths, it's um, they correspond to our organs. They correspond to things that we like, things that we avoid, things that trigger us to our purpose in life, to our spiritual [00:08:30] abilities, to our cognitive abilities.

rk. And a system could be my [: 00:08:45

We have a questionnaire that can measure the amount of these five elements in your nature. When I see the amount that each person has in their nature and the relationship among the five, it's a diagnostic and a solution in one. So [00:09:15] if the system that you want to work well is, Hey, I want a good morning routine so that I wake up and I function well, I could look at someone's elements and say, oh, here's why you are resisting a morning [00:09:30] routine and here's your solution.

. If you wanna do something, [: 00:09:45

Aransas Savas: Hmm. Tell us what the five archetypes are so we can start to visualize these.

and wood. They correspond to [: 00:10:00

Mm-hmm. Which means that not only do we hurt our own selves when we get over addicted [00:10:30] to one. One way of dealing with stress, but ripples out into our relationships. Whereas everyone else who has those other primaries feels unseen. Unrespected, undignified, unappreciated, [00:10:45] because we're so overvaluing, just one way of seeing the world.

gs I talk a lot about is how [: 00:11:00

But then you take it a step further and you say, this is what other [00:11:45] people who have other perspectives might think of you when you're stressed. Yeah. I found that so interesting. It was a little confronting.

Carey Davidson: Yeah.

ansas Savas: I was like ick, [: 00:12:00

Carey Davidson: One thing is, just to circle back to the ick of it, is humans [00:12:15] can't tolerate discomfort well.

going into my comfort zone? [: 00:12:30

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

is ripple effect out into my [: 00:12:45

Into my spouse, to my leadership team, to my support staff, to my clients. They're gonna have to now manage my wonky fire element, which to me feels really good. [00:13:00] But am I gonna value my, I should never have to feel uncomfortable over, Hey, tolerate my. Illusion, my temporary illusion of discomfort for a moment while I open my aperture, like you said, [00:13:15] allow the stress so that I can see the bigger picture and have more empathy for the world I'm about to create.

e that makes them feel like. [: 00:13:30

Aransas Savas: This is too much. That example specifically is something that I hear so often from Uplifters in terms of limiting beliefs. This idea of she's too big, [00:13:45] she's too much for vast majority of the women who've been on this show, that inner critic has come up as something that.

econsidered in order to move [: 00:14:00

Carey Davidson: Well, each element has [00:14:15] a unique and very specific way they can get too much. I love this whole idea.

omfortable. And so the point [: 00:14:30

Those are the five ways we overdo it. It feels comfortable to the ego, so we do it and then we say, you better like me. [00:15:00] Each element can be powerful when it also makes friends with the water within us and water in like 90 plus percent of people is their lowest element.

Aransas Savas: Interesting.

Carey Davidson: So we think [: 00:15:15

But really power comes from the water within us to find the deep will to get still, and wait [00:15:30] and pause and listen. And observe. Observe and make a wiser choice based on gathering content. And by being the person who creates the conditions for everyone in the room to rise [00:15:45] and feel cared for by you, rather than coming in the old way, like the, or on a patriarchy like the old, the old way of power that is not working anymore.

Is like, you know, the, the [: 00:16:00

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. It's positional power, [00:16:15] as Amy Cuddy would say, not personal power.

d, what defines each one and [: 00:16:30

Carey Davidson: Yeah. Fire corresponds to the heart. Okay. And it's the part of us that gives joy and hope and optimism and, and has intuitive abilities and loves eye contact and [00:16:45] smiles and warmth and connection.

Then you have earth. Earth is our stomach and our spleen. It's food and digestion. And Earth is the part of us that knows how to have empathy,

Aransas Savas: knows

need and to give it to them [: 00:17:00

Then we have water. Water corresponds to the kidneys and the bladder at its [00:17:30] physical foundational point. It's about good sleep and it's about staying hydrated, but it's also about peace and deep meaning and truth, and wisdom, and understanding metaphor and poetry. Not having to [00:17:45] jump to a conclusion, but thinking through things.

s freedom from the perceived [: 00:18:00

So as you can see, we need all of our [00:18:15] organs, we have all of them, hopefully. But we tend to overindex into one thinking that keeps us safe. Mm. And when we do that, we draw all the energy outta the others. We get myopic. Mm-hmm.

Aransas Savas: And

Carey Davidson: we [: 00:18:30

Aransas Savas: Yeah. And we can't appreciate the perspectives of others.

ence all the others. Is that [: 00:18:45

Carey Davidson: Well, it, it kind of depends on the context Okay. Of the group. Usually the leader of the group has the responsibility to be the loudest voice. Just if you take, take, take out like all the elements, like it has [00:19:00] to be because that leader is responsible for revenue production.

Like all the things, assuming we're talking about a, a company.

Aransas Savas: Or a family.

Carey Davidson: Or a family. Yeah, totally.

Aransas Savas: Or a neighborhood. Yeah. There's always gonna be a leader.

Carey Davidson: Yeah. [: 00:19:15

It's all about face, everything, and it's momentum. [00:19:30] It's delegation. It's like, I can see how this is gonna make money and let's do it fast. They hire people who don't necessarily have, what is their primary, because that could be a competition. Mm. Because then there's gonna be, so they hire people who [00:19:45] love to support them.

things don't go their way or [: 00:20:00

So what does that do to the other elements? The other elements, they usually [00:20:15] have lower wood. They can't tolerate anger very easily, and they shut down to telling you the truth. And Wood just wants to tell me, Tommy goes, what did we do wrong? Where did we fail? And they love that, but everyone else is like, oh, I'm gonna get in trouble.[00:20:30]

stay that way, but once you [: 00:20:45

So it's not like, oh, we're stuck this way. It's like, oh, now that we know it, we know exactly how to avoid it, so it never happens again.

sas Savas: It sort of merges [: 00:21:00

Carey Davidson: Wood will do that. Fire wants you to be happy. Earth wants to support you. So they don't wanna be the leader, like they prefer to be quiet team players. Metal also doesn't [00:21:30] always wanna be like the loud person who everyone's listening to, and water prefers anonymity. Mysteriousness, you can tell if you see someone who has high wood, they love to delegate, right?

They're [: 00:21:45

Aransas Savas: You've seen thousands of these assessments, do you feel like you just automatically, when you see people, you're like

s interesting is the primary [: 00:22:00

So it's almost as much as, if not more poignant to notice what the lowest is. Where the person is like has the [00:22:15] greatest opportunity for coming back into their best selves. Mm. But I could sometimes see like. I would guess you were fired because of your smile fire. People have a, like, they don't know how to not smile.

Aransas Savas: No, I don't. [: 00:22:30

Carey Davidson: Yeah. Fire. We have no idea how not to smile. And so some, I've had [00:22:45] someone ask me, talking about a difficult subject, why are you smiling?

This is not a funny topic. I'm like,

Music: I can't, I dunno.

looked at that framework you [: 00:23:00

So what it said is that wood says too [00:23:15] silly to get things done. That is like my biggest fear. I think about like the feedback others have said that has most gotten in the way of my own. Authentic energy and growth. It is a, a fear, a belief [00:23:30] that I'm perceived as being silly or unserious Earth said it was to show offy.

fs that I really had to work [: 00:23:45

Carey Davidson: To me. So what's interesting is each of those elements [00:24:00] only believes that about fire when those elements themselves are stressed out or feeling insecure.

So. We go into judgment and criticism of others when we feel insecure.

Aransas Savas: Cool.

dson: When we feel grounded, [: 00:24:15

Those are only distortions of the truth because the truth is you're freaking rockstar. Like there is no other [00:24:45] truth. Thanks. How are you? Great. We all. Are these like, I mean, dude, we're here. Yeah. We're making it happen every day. Every one of us is a rockstar. If anyone goes into judgment or criticism about anyone else ever, [00:25:00] that's a reflection of their own.

them, more pain for us. The [: 00:25:15

Aransas Savas: and you. That's hard.

s I ask clients all the time [: 00:25:30

That stuff is so unconscious that our awareness to everything you're saying is so low that we can't change it. And so that's why it's hard for us because we see it as truth, not as a [00:26:00] perspective.

Carey Davidson: We've been conditioned to believe it's true.

Aransas Savas: Yeah.

Carey Davidson: Because

Aransas Savas: we, 'cause we talk even and

Carey Davidson: we've conditioned ourselves to believe it's true.

about and when it really is [: 00:26:15

It's precisely predictable and it's always right. It's, you wouldn't say like, maybe tomorrow the sun will be a tree. We're like, no, it won't. It's gonna be a tree. [00:27:00] It's not predictable so much so that like, yeah, like I can take assessment or questionnaire results from a team of thousands of people and know exactly how they're all gonna react to a certain message and [00:27:15] how to, you know, teach.

g a distortion. So like fire [: 00:27:30

Aransas Savas: Yeah. I don't even know if it's joy is how I would label it.

So, so check me on [: 00:27:45

Carey Davidson: Yeah, it's similar like yeah, we

hey're not, I either have to [: 00:28:00

Carey Davidson: Yeah. Yeah. So from that nugget is why

t Christmas again. My father [: 00:28:15

oh my gosh. Yeah, it's hard. It's like an unrealistic standard, right? And then we set ourselves up if we are not aware. But I [00:28:30] love this idea here that like this stuff is super predictable. It's not rocket science. You don't have to work so hard. Just learn this stuff and learn how to be realistic and honest with yourself about what's going on.

Carey Davidson: [: 00:28:45

You need to like experience that, or you can't embody growth. We can't prevent people from having sad and having anger. Like it's there [00:29:15] for a reason to help us like. I feel the crap so that we learn not to repeat it.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

at risk for doing is getting [: 00:29:30

Right. And then they go into their loop. That's not our problem. Right. Like you and I, I mean, you and I both have second. So we can kind of feel that, but that's not [00:29:45] our primary problem. You know, metal gets stuck in grief, grieving what used to be. How come it's not the same way? Water gets stuck in fear and paranoia and wood gets stuck in other people [00:30:00] have made me feel anger.

all your relationships with [: 00:30:15

Aransas Savas: she's in it. Uh, what a beautiful medicine to give ourselves.

The first step is really awareness.

Carey Davidson: Yeah.

Aransas Savas: What do we [: 00:30:30

Carey Davidson: So as soon as you recognize the very specific thing, you will think when you're starting to go into the distortion, the first thing to do is slow down. Mm-hmm. [00:30:45] So recovery starts with slowing down, like we speed up because we wanna fix it.

We wanna quickly not have to feel that stuff.

Aransas Savas: And it's an automated pattern so it can speed up. Yeah. Because we've done it a billion times.

Carey Davidson: Yeah. [: 00:31:00

You and I, [00:31:15] we slow down through Earth. Is go get something to eat and go talk to someone who always has your back.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. Because

ion. So connect with someone [: 00:31:30

That's a fire coping mechanism, but that doesn't help Wood doesn't help. Water doesn't have metal or earth. Why not at all?

Aransas Savas: What helps me [: 00:31:45

Breaking your neck nodding, but go look, because as you're saying that they, those feel so [00:32:15] true for me. And so I hope people will hear this and go look at their elements and try to understand what some of these tendencies, these ancient truths might tell them about the other elements, because I don't even like know what those [00:32:30] other ones might be.

Frankly, these sound so true.

Carey Davidson: Yeah. You know, when we get frustrated, we think we need to fix the problem that we believe is happening.

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

we rush into how am I gonna [: 00:32:45

If we give it more energy, we're like. We're investing in [00:33:00] in vapor. Mm-hmm. And creating sickness and infl. We're making

Aransas Savas: it truer.

read out, slow down so I can [: 00:33:15

I'm taking everything personally. She's going through a hard time. Of course she's gonna insult my earrings, whatever. You don't chase [00:33:30] the symptom that we created to mean something. Mm-hmm. And we can spend more of our energy in giving love, in creating the conditions for everyone to feel safe and loved around us, and seen and [00:33:45] dignified, and think more about, how can I create more diversity in this team, in this idea?

feels like they own a piece [: 00:34:00

Aransas Savas: Yeah. More collaboration and less conflict. As my fellow fire, there have to be things that scare the crap out of you and make this hard. And so I'm curious how you take care of yourself, [00:34:15] and it may be very fire specific, but how you take care of yourself to empower, embolden yourself to keep doing these big, brave things.

n: I live in the woods and I [: 00:34:30

Each and every one of your cells, that everything unfolds naturally in a very specific, [00:35:00] predetermined way as it should in its own time. You're not gonna go yell at a peach tree in February that it ain't produce and fruit. You're gonna be like, it's gonna come in August whenever the harvest, and

Aransas Savas: [: 00:35:15

I make later.

minding my mind to let go of [: 00:35:30

It reminds my soul. [00:35:45] Everything in its own time. I'm making good choices with the information I have in every moment and every day I am learning, and every day it gets broader and I'm doing it with heart.

Savas: That's beautiful. And [: 00:36:00

Where actually I was lucky and I had trees in my view, but I just had this weird maybe obsession with seeing what would happen if [00:36:15] I stared at water for eight hours a day while working, which is what I do now. And it was a bit of a fixation that I was like, I have to do this. And it went from vision boards to reality in front of me.

[: 00:36:30

[00:37:00] My mission in life is to amplify the stories of inspiring women so that we can all learn together how to do bigger, braver things. And so what I'd like to know and what I think we'd all [00:37:15] like to know is how we can help you and lift you and your work up in support of your mission.

Carey Davidson: Okay? I'm gonna cry for a second.

don't always get asked that. [: 00:37:30

Aransas Savas: Hmm. As a

t yourself, learn about your [: 00:37:45

Share the questionnaire, give someone else that gift. The questionnaire is free learning. What your distortion is is free. Your capacity to catch yourself, it's all on you. [00:38:00] You don't have to pay me a cent, like one person taking the questionnaire. And not following their habituated, there's something wrong with me.

hes the potential in endless [: 00:38:15

I would love to see everybody balancing themselves and sharing it with others so that. We wake up, wake, you know, a couple of days and we have a world of unconditional love. I mean, [00:38:45]

Aransas Savas: I mean Yeah. Yeah. Sign me up. I'll, I'll take that. I'll take it And, and ch forward, right? Like Yeah. And, and I think that's the beauty of this is that we don't have to fix the world and we don't have to change everything.

the more space we can create [: 00:39:00

It was so wonderful to meet you. I'm so inspired by your work. Let's all take the assessment and meet up and talk about it. Uh, learn from each other and do our part to make the world a [00:39:30] better place. Yeah, I'm in. I'm here. Thank you, Carrie. Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with the [00:39:45] Uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation over@theuplifterspodcast.com.

e, follow and rate our show, [: 00:40:00

Music: big love painted water sunshine with [00:40:15] rosemary. I'm dwelling, perplexing. You find ITing.

e land, a tree in springtime [: 00:40:30

lift you up,[00:40:45]

lift you up,

lift you up.

Lift you up.

Lift [: 00:41:00

lift.

Um, [: 00:41:15