Nutrafol’s Dr. Isabelle Raymond: The Scientist Who Made Menopause Research Personal

TUP EP 131

Aransas Savas: [: 00:00:00

As someone who's built my career around [00:00:30] rigorous science, I super love that Nutriful was the first brand to clinically study hair thinning on menopausal women, which is why I am so proud to have them as a sponsor. Nutriful takes a whole body approach to [00:00:45] hair health supporting you throughout your life stages.

off your first month [: 00:01:00

This week I am totally geeking out because I get the chance to talk. And introduce you to Dr. [00:01:30] Isabelle Raymond. She's an author, she's a scientific leader. She has a PhD in biomedical science, and recently she's been working in the beauty and wellness industries and currently serves as the head of Clinical and Medical [00:01:45] Affairs at Nutriful.

nd, and it's built on really [: 00:02:00

It's just really thrilling, especially for those of us who are in our second half of life really. It's just so exciting to see companies taking women second half of life seriously and researching it independently, and I know Isabelle [00:02:30] is behind so much of that. It's a really big day over here. So Isabelle, I'm really just so happy to have you join us today to get to know you a little bit better.

l and really been around the [: 00:02:45

Isabelle Raymond: Welcome

Aransas Savas: to

listened to you and I'm just [: 00:03:00

Oh my gosh.

Uplifters. And I wanna start [: 00:03:15

And I know [00:03:30] this shift from a solid research background to an executive leadership within this brand in the beauty and wellness industries was a, a big move for you. So [00:03:45] give us a little background on how you went from that original career path to where you are now.

Isabelle Raymond: Oh, thank you. You know? Yeah. Both my parents were academics at universities and I knew I did not wanna do that.

you can't help yourself. You [: 00:04:00

And we'll get to that in a second. [00:04:15] But it's just so funny because I feel like I started out, you know, studying Sleep and Dreams and PTSD and burn patients and how that led to, you know, moving to the United States, not knowing what I was gonna do in my career. 'cause who's, you know, unless I'm an academic right.[00:04:30]

fall into the States and as [: 00:04:45

I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'll figure it out. And I was asking questions, what does someone with a PhD do? And really joined pharmaceuticals because I didn't wanna be an academic. I know the lifestyle. My partner [00:05:00] was a, you know, academic and it was something is not a life for me. I welcome it and I applaud them, but not for me.

rked in sleep tied to what I [: 00:05:15

Neurotoxins. So I was studying neurotoxins for spasticity, cervical dystonia, and all [00:05:30] these things really relate to muscles. And then I had dermatologists tell me, well, what are the effects on wrinkles? I was like, what do you mean? And so I was introduced to the world of dermatology and aesthetics and I was like, love it, love it so much.

And so I've never left. [: 00:05:45

They were so kind and so nice and just so. So sure about what they were doing. Mm. And I was like, how can you be [00:06:15] so sure about this? Mm-hmm. And so I started talking with them and over the years, and this said, join us. And I was like, I'm not sure. Right. I think this is kind of like a big move. I don't wanna be taken seriously.

he best moves because I love [: 00:06:30

And as a woman really being able to like talk about the endpoints that matter to us because it wouldn't dictated by what the f FDA's telling you, you need to measure these things. 'cause if you, you study a drug, usually the [00:07:00] FDA will tell you these are the endpoints that you must measure in order to get approval.

about menopausal women? What [: 00:07:15

Aransas Savas: Wow. It sounds like maybe at the outside your career could sound like a bit of a firework, right? Kind of going in different [00:07:30] directions. But actually it sounds like it was all very much going in one direction, which was the direction of your curiosity.

ave the thought that I could [: 00:07:45

Right. Having that impact to me has been, uh, so important. Mm-hmm. And not only that, but because I was living through it, it also helped us like, we need to study [00:08:00] this because I know that I'm feeling this so. Being to like add your experience. Again, I hate talking about anecdotes because mm-hmm. The pool of anecdote, in my opinion, is not data.

that it's data, but it's an [: 00:08:15

Aransas Savas: go evaluate it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm big on the, the good old quality data and I actually think it's, it's tremendous data, right? It tells us where to look, and that's actually the other big theme that I'm hearing in [00:08:30] here is something that.

t our health, our individual [: 00:08:45

Would I no longer be doing [00:09:00] valid science if I was working in supplements? And I think it sounds like now you've said no, actually it's the most serious thing because it's allowing me to take seriously understudied aspects of women's health.

abelle Raymond: So well put, [: 00:09:15

And then looking back, just wait, hold on a second. There's half the population that's not studied. And we just [00:09:30] infer data from men to women. I don't think I even realized that. And that's the thing that kind of kills me because I felt fairly educated in everything I've done. And I, I've read studies and again, all these different cardiovascular and reading studies about medication for blood pressure or for, you know, high, [00:09:45] high cholesterol, never once questioning.

arted talking about hair and [: 00:10:00

I don't see myself in any of these studies. But when I came out with two products, one for men, one for women. I was like, why? I

Aransas Savas: said,

n the same study. We have to [: 00:10:15

Like this is, it's so basic, like it's so groundbreaking, but it's so basic. But you guys were the first, once I talk about this, I [00:10:30] know it's insane to me that we are the first hair brand supplement to study menopausal women with hair th.

Aransas Savas: And one of few to study it, period. Right. To study menopausal women.

Yeah. And their individual [: 00:10:45

Isabelle Raymond: There's things specifically related to hair. I know there's a lot of studies out there on on, not compared to men, not even close. Let's not even pretend it's the same. There are some studies, but it's just you have your typical hot flashes and you talk about very symptoms that are earlier your [00:11:00] see menopause brain here.

Sorry, let's The word word is it okay?

lad you did so Thank you for [: 00:11:15

Isabelle Raymond: so much more now, but it really, looking at women shouldn't be. An afterthought.

Aransas Savas: No.

are a huge impact. So lemme [: 00:11:30

Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm.

Isabelle Raymond: And so if you want to really make sure that your product is, is is the result or the results or the.

en you want to control every [: 00:11:45

Did you control? So it's harder. So I can see people just, eh, it's too [00:12:00] hard and we really wanna see this. But it's like, well, it's still half the population and don't you wanna know what happened? So this just kind of opened up, it's like you see the the world and then you kind of like. Just kind of, you really have to take these things into account and like, this is right for you at this [00:12:15] time, or this is not right for you at this time, because then you can really think about your health, your wellness, your beauty, at a time that you know it's gonna change.

And that's okay.

eah. And just like brain fog [: 00:12:30

Isabelle Raymond: But if you don't know, like I know you know about hot flashes, you know about the loss of periods, but did you I didn't know about brain fog. Oh my gosh. No, I

Aransas Savas: was honestly with the hair stuff, I was so shocked.

I'll tell you how I really [: 00:12:45

Oh my gosh. I was like, YI think there's

? Is this normal? Yeah. This [: 00:13:15

There's all these things that, but nobody's talking about it, so how would I know? Yeah. No, I didn't listen. I didn't know either, which is again, so almost embarrassing. Yeah. Tell me, how is that So I [00:13:30] was, I just started Nutrafol 2020, okay. January, just before the pandemic. And then we all went home and you started being on camera and we were doing this menopausal study during COVID, and so I said, well, happens to women during menopause, you know, the hair and, and they said, no, the part widens.

And I'm of course on [: 00:13:45

And I was like, wait, how long? No. And we assume that, you know, menopause is, is my solution, was bang happens when you, oh my, I'm about to get bangs, actually. [00:14:00] But you assume that it's gonna be so much older. Always thought, you know, you think of the golden girls and you think of like much older, not in your forties.

ing? Anything that I'm going [: 00:14:15

And so if you don't know, it can be very, very,

g the Nutrafol magazine Yes. [: 00:14:30

I mean, if the average woman, American woman's lifespan is 88, that means like less than half our lives are right? Like, okay, pediatricians are doing their thing. And then there's your [00:15:00] OB, GYN, who's maybe helping you through like. Pregnancy specific, but what about everything else?

Isabelle Raymond: Nobody owns menopause and that's the thing.

st be, because it's not just [: 00:15:15

Including your hair, by the way. So this is why you [00:15:30] go through changes. So as your, as your estrogen goes down or up during this perimenopausal rollercoaster that we go through, you have like this estrogen dominance and this androgen dominance, and you just, you're on a rollercoaster basically. Your organs are on that ride with you.

So [: 00:15:45

And I think just get understanding that, and to me, knowledge will give women. The, not the power. I hate saying that, but like just this is, this is okay. It's not in my head and I can [00:16:15] prepare for it instead of gaslighting ourselves. Right. But gaslighting ourselves, we're going to the doctor being gaslit too, because again, if they're not trained, they're like, I don't know what to do for you.

pausal symptom test that you [: 00:16:30

Aransas Savas: Well, and I, I actually maybe because. I was raised by my grandmother. I had my great-grandmother, my great-great-grandmother all around me my entire life. They, women in my family live forever and do lots of really amazing, [00:16:45] inspiring stuff in their later years.

I never really believed that there was some like hard, fast cutoff for our.

[: 00:17:00

But it really can be a time of massive opportunity if we're not distracted by. All this other stuff. Yes.

lle Raymond: Because you can [: 00:17:30

Do not tell anybody how old you are because they're going to. To quietly put you to rest. Right. And I was like, that's not, that doesn't make sense. I'm smart. I can, you know, I have so much to give and I just did not understand. And I do [00:18:00] see that happening before, but now I really see a change of like, women are speaking up and they're proud of going through this and I, I almost feel like I wanna be part of this club now.

e here today because we have [: 00:18:15

So it really is us who are going to make the change. And similar to, I feel so lucky that like I know what outcomes to look [00:18:30] for as a woman, so I can design studies to really validate that experience. Right? And without women in these areas, men are fantastic, but they don't go through it. So how would they know?

el an experience and you can [: 00:18:45

Aransas Savas: Right. [00:19:00] Well, and I think you're bringing up something that's so core to all of this.

r and demanding support and. [: 00:19:15

And so all of this to me is just data. That helps me have hope that change is possible and that we're not stuck. And I was actually, there's, there's [00:19:45] research now that shows that our growth mindset peaks in our forties. I can see that.

Isabelle Raymond: I, I, I feel so can you, you've gathered all this knowledge and you connected the dots throughout your life and you're like, hold on a second, I think I got it right.

share that. You wanna try to [: 00:20:00

But I think we do make, we need to make this noise and we need to [00:20:15] really speak out again to see, because there's something, it's like, what can women do? And you're right, because you know, to me, what kind of makes me sad is talking to women who've gone through menopause already and say, oh, I'm, I've, I went through that, honey, I'm done.

ut you're not done. It's the [: 00:20:30

So it's, it's really being able to understand what you're, how you're going to be able to be the best self, physically and emotionally. That's it for the next 30, 40 years of your life.

necessarily about extending [: 00:21:00

I don't wanna live to a hundred. If I'm miserable, I wanna live as long as I'm having a rich, meaningful life. And physically [00:21:15] able to do these things and, and being able to speak and, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally, having pleasure. And if you, you have the good hair too, that helps it tremendous, it does it.

fascinated by how different [: 00:21:30

Isabelle Raymond: It's a deal, like some days are just based upon [00:21:45] your hair. I mean, and I hate to sound, but every woman knows this is true.

rough all these things in my [: 00:22:00

Like, can I really do something about this? We acknowledge it. It's true. This is not all in your head and there's things that we can do about it.

Yeah. I love that. And that [: 00:22:15

Yes. So true.

Isabelle Raymond: It's so true.

Aransas Savas: And so for you at this stage of life, what's energizing you? Isabelle?

el like menopause. I kind of [: 00:22:45

Because. If I can speak normally about it and have these brain fog moments, like now my team, like they, they all, [00:23:00] they're like, oh, here she goes. And they can replace the words now because they know what I'm gonna say. But just normalizing it in the workplace. To me, I think that's the, we had a, an event once, it was a, a group of menopausal went through, um, through Nutrafol where we, you know, brought them in and it was a group of 10 or [00:23:15] 12 of us and we, mental health, because I was kind of going throughs, quit their jobs.

you just feel like I cannot [: 00:23:30

Aransas Savas: I heard somewhere recently that it's a $1.8 billion loss. It is to companies annually because women feel unable to perform and therefore have more sick [00:23:45] days.

They. Are underutilized in their professional roles

is gonna be a phaser. There [: 00:24:00

I'm in a place where I feel like. The fact that I'm here talking to you about this and the fact that I could go back to the company and say like, Hey, this is really important, and if we're gonna be talking about menopause, we need to implement [00:24:15] these changes within the company too. And having that influence, like I never thought I would have that influence energizes me.

Like we can talk about studies all day long, but the fact that you can see real change happening for real women

Aransas Savas: mm-hmm.

gh this and just normalizing [: 00:24:30

So, or just knowing this will pass. This is a rough phase right now, but I'll be okay on the other side, so I'm not gonna stop everything. I'm not gonna, I know I believe in myself, but sometimes I am so exhausted. I don't know if I have the energy that I just, like, I have [00:25:00] to stop. Right? But, but knowing, okay, not today, but maybe tomorrow or next week, or maybe give yourself a few months, but it's not over.

iet versus. Oh no, you have, [: 00:25:15

What happens, nobody tells you, right? It's kinda like you have your period. Nobody tells your you that, you know the idea of it. Yeah. But [00:25:30] no, you get very little information. Pregnancy, it's like, ah. See, it's almost like nobody wants to tell you because they're afraid that you're. You're not gonna be able to take it, but we can take it.

they have their kids. We can [: 00:25:45

And I do have to change things. I do have to change how I take, you know, food in and, and, and, and supplements or all these things, you know, for, for the next. Third of my life. [00:26:15] But it's okay.

Aransas Savas: Yeah, it's okay. We weren't meant to stay the same. No. And you're not

Isabelle Raymond: done. You're not done.

Aransas Savas: You're just

Isabelle Raymond: different.

have to, you have to warn a [: 00:26:30

You know, if we can change that narrative of like. It's not, what's wrong with you is you are going through [00:26:45] this, it's just changing and, and what can be on the other side, and that's why I'm here. I'm hearing very positive things on the other side, so yeah, I mean,

f becomes such a distraction.[: 00:27:00

I always think about, what was that book? You know, I feel bad about my neck. I look at it sometimes. I'm like, that's funny. Right? It's different. Yeah. And there's so much about my life that I wouldn't trade for a 20-year-old for any amount of money. No, [00:27:15]

Isabelle Raymond: but when you're 20, you don't know that because you just think, oh, because you have this idea like, I'm gonna be done.

up here. Top bay. Top tier, [: 00:27:30

Aransas Savas: it. So one of the things I've like to ask you is, I don't know that, like in your other roles, were you in a role of spokesperson and front woman for the band, or is this a new gig for you?

[: 00:27:45

Isabelle Raymond: I was always the one in the back doing the work. Like most scientists. Like most scientists, yeah. I, I've never been a putting me. Forward facing is, is very, uh, humbling. And because you see yourself and you're so used to, [00:28:00] I'm good in small, I'm very introverted person, and so I'm very good in small groups.

utrafol and me at this point [: 00:28:15

And so [00:28:30] what I would say to anybody who is on a path that they think something else may not be for them. Look into it. Take the chance, look into it really, because mm-hmm. It'll open things up and I didn't think I would be a spokesperson, but I I, for menopause, I [00:28:45] really didn't. If you told me that in my twenties, I'd like, you're absolutely crazy.

is. I am proud and if I can, [: 00:29:00

From the shelf I think that you can't do from your twenties or your thirties. And so look at the top shelf ladies for [00:29:30] guidance or for insights because they've gone through it and if you give them a chance to talk about it, you will learn so much. That's really beautiful, Isabel. Thank you. I really feel it like I really do, and that's been part of the surprise.

So I think [: 00:29:45

Aransas Savas: What an honor truly, truly to pave the. I love too, when I asked you who you wanted [00:30:00] to nominate for the podcast, the name you shared and, and the work she's doing was incredibly meaningful, but it was also the impact she'd had on you that really moved me.

So who would you like to nominate, Isabel?

nd: I would like to nominate [: 00:30:15

That's come from from history. So she's a historical writer. Not only that, she is such a light and a lovely human who at a moment that I was gonna go on stage and I had super big imposter syndrome. I'm like, what am I doing here? She just [00:30:45] looked at me and she saw my face like, and this is where you know how, how amazing people are, how women you can be this.

d, but she did and she just. [: 00:31:00

And I was like, who am I that she could do this for? Right. So [00:31:15] it was so nice and I was like, I will never, ever forget that. And. I will do that for others. Always. Sorry. It's just, it just the kindness. Don't ever underestimate or overestimate the kindness of doing such a [00:31:30] small gesture of like reaching out when you see someone who's maybe not doing their best or they look a little lost, or they are looking like not comfortable and just holding their hand or just those simple things are just so helpful.

So yes, that's why [: 00:31:45

Aransas Savas: Thank you. Thank you. I'll say too, that I think one of the big takeaways from this conversation is the power of honesty. Yes. To acknowledge that everything [00:32:00] isn't great in every moment because it allows us to be supported. Yes. Whether it's with our hair or our confidence.

s faking it under the table. [: 00:32:15

Isabelle Raymond: It's not faking under the I love. I'm gonna take that from you. Faking it under the table should not be an option. I love it. And yet we were

Aransas Savas: trained to fake it

Isabelle Raymond: under

Aransas Savas: the table we were.

ourse we do, but I, I, like, [: 00:32:30

Isabelle Raymond: honesty. Be who you are in that moment. And it's okay not to be at your best right now.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Did our best. Best. Thank you. It's, it's so much. Yes.

, to your audience, there is [: 00:33:00

I wanna hear other people's experiences. Yes, I'm loving it and loved, loved, loved talking to you, Isabel.

ing more diverse thinking to [: 00:33:30

Head over to Spotify, apple Podcast, or. Wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show, it'll really help us connect with more [00:34:15] uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories.

with Rosemary Anton dwelling [: 00:34:30

Be around. Best love for relish in a new prime MA tree in springtime dance. With that hindsight, [00:34:45] bring the sun to twilight. Lift you up,

lift you up,

lift you up,[: 00:35:00

lift you up.

Lift you up.

Lift you[: 00:35:15

lift.

Beautiful. I cried. [: 00:35:30