Episode 63
Cleyvis Natera is Going to Teach You How to Find Creative Courage
Cleyvis Natera hasn’t always been the author of a critically acclaimed novel. She always knew she wanted to be, and she was certain she had what it took, but big jobs and big paychecks kept distracting her, and the big break she was looking for kept eluding her. Her son’s life-threatening illness triggered an awakening that propelled her to reclaim her passion for writing.
I always knew I wanted to be a writer. I began to write stories in High School and even studied under a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer in undergrad. But as a child of immigrants, and as a person who immigrated myself, the idea of making a living by writing seemed out of reach. I tried. I worked full time, went to grad school for an MFA and it seemed as though switching careers would be a matter of time. Things didn't work out that way. After a relentless series of what I saw at the time as endless rejections, I stopped pursuing a writing career. I stopped writing. It wasn't until I had a medical crisis and almost lost my young son that I found myself compelled to get back to it. A few years later, I've now made a complete transition into a writing life and quit that full-time corporate job that provided such a sense of accomplishment and stability. I still marvel at how the toughest and most painful experience of my life led to a breakthrough -- and I feel the most free and fulfilled I've ever felt.
In our first-ever live episode of The Uplifters Podcast, Cleyvis shares with disarming honesty what it really took to achieve literary success and publish her chart-topping novel about immigrant Uplifters, Neruda on The Park. Most of all, Cleyvis shows it what it looks like we own our brilliance, badassery, and beauty and don’t rely on the world to give us its’ fickle approval.
Prepare to be inspired and emboldened as Cleyvis invites us to embrace our singularity, confront the harsh realities of the world, and find the courage to birth the beautiful creations that are waiting within us.
5 Uplifting Lessons:
- Embrace Authenticity: You are more powerful when you use your unique voice even when it defies societal expectations.
- Cultivate Resilience: Rejection and setbacks are inevitable, but if you can learn how to learn from failures, then you can persist.
- Nurture Self-Compassion: Be gentle with yourself, celebrate small victories, and embrace self-love as a source of strength.
- Find Inspiration in Community: Surround yourself with a supportive community of fellow creatives to fuel your inspiration, ignite your competitive spirit, and propel you to reach new heights.
- Birth Your Creations: Your story deserves to be told.
Check out our new show intro!
At our Uplifters Live event a couple of weeks ago, we asked each guest to tell us what it means to be an Uplifter! Each week we’ll feature one of these voices in the intro of our show. This week you’ll hear from Alexa Hladick.
Who’s ready to “Cleyvis” with me??
Transcript
Cleyvis Draft Audio
the author of Neruda on the [:Generations of uplifters who carry all the things and who do all the things they're told and are good girls. [00:01:15] And then a wrecking ball comes through. As has happened for so many of you who have been on the podcast. Your proverbial wrecking ball. And then a wrecking ball comes through. These women [00:01:30] emerge.
Really? It's so good.[:So I want to talk to you about why you wrote a book about uplifters. Wow. Well, thank you. Be [00:02:00] here. That why you lifters my second bookers. Yeah. Well, thank you. Big to be here. Um, I just handed in [00:02:15] my second book last, like, 14th.
u to hear this, but that was [:I mean, I really was like, where's the [00:02:45] red carpet? I'm a genius. Like, what is wrong with the world that, like, my beautiful book isn't receiving the reception it needs? And, you know, I ended up putting the book away, and I started working on Neruda on the Park. Um, and at the [00:03:00] beginning, it was really like a book about a young woman who like, comes back home to Harlem, Washington Heights area, that's where I grew up.
? There's gentrification and [:And what ended up happening is that with this second book, it also wasn't happening. I mean, the whole time I was working a full time job in corporate America, and as you all can tell by now, Um Very accomplished. So I was [00:03:45] like climbing this corporate ladder And I was getting promoted and I was like making all that like more money than like ten family members combined You know like and so at one point I was like, why am I?
myself in a space where I'm [:Aransas: You made it sound like the making the babies is This
Cleyvis: dream isn't meant for me. I focus on making some babies. That was fun.
ashback every time I'm like, [:I never stopped reading. I never stopped trying. But I really put it in the back burner. And then I faced like a horrifying experience where My son was [00:05:00] born with a rare blood disorder and had to get not one, but two bone marrow transplants. And when that happened It really was the reckoning. It was the ball that came through my life.
And all of a sudden I looked [:It's such a genius. Um, but people, you know, people were like, you're so great. Like your life looks so perfect. You have your perfect children. And it's like, no, like my child was born with this really rare disease and [00:05:45] In order for him to be cured, my daughter, who was one years old, had to like become a bone marrow transplant for my three year old.
tory, because I know we have [:And I just was like, losing it, I was spinning. And I was crying and I called my mother. And, you know, if you've ever been to O'Hare, it's like the armpit of America Airports. It's like, you're always like, sweating. You know, getting left behind, [00:06:30] like, you know, all the flights are cancelled. And I was just, like, looking very smart with my suit and, like, on the phone with my mom.
e from my job, so I couldn't [:Stop it. If you fall apart, your whole family will fall apart. [00:07:00] And you know what? Like for me, that it was like happened very close to like, when I was looking in the hospital room and being like, what have I done with my life? It was like, no, like if I can't cry to you. [00:07:15] Who can I cry with, you know? And I'll tell you, like, it was in that moment that I felt like, no more.
he things and being perfect. [:Aransas: Because she has her moment of awakening. They take the things off her shoulders and by the end of it they put it all back on her. I'm like, you, you missed the ending, sir.
[:Cleyvis: I'm like, you, you missed the ending, sir. But in reality, that is what, that's what society wants from us. I mean, even when we have our moments of [00:08:15] awakening, what we're expected to do is to numb ourselves, anesthetize ourselves, and then go back to carrying everything. And there was a radical shift that happened in my life.
ly, I became very committed. [:And you know, at some point I was like, okay, so it's not going to be about publishing a book, because I didn't want to self publish. I actually wanted a traditional publishing path. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to shift. I'm just going to become a better writer. And I'm going to write the [00:09:00] book I want to write, which is going to be about love and obligation and sacrifice, but also about rage and sex.
And it's really
Aransas: good.
Cleyvis: And let's see what happens. I'm
to say it, you're a genius. [:Cleyvis: I thought you were saying it.
Aransas: But here's the thing, Clavis isn't the only genius.
Cleyvis: Oh my god, stop it, stop it. How many geniuses would
Aransas: stop? Because [:You're a genius. to keep showing up and saying no, I have to do this. Yeah, I
in my life. To keep showing [:Um, as women that I think have been so [00:10:00] demolished by expectations. You And have been so, it's been like heartbreaking, you know, to like see so many of, of the people that I love, especially artists, because I think we live in a culture that doesn't always appreciate [00:10:15] art. And you know, if like the, the way that our value is measured is by material wealth.
kind of money we could make [:I spend a lot of my time talking, you know, uplifting people and being like, it's not gonna be easy. It's not about talent, actually, and it's not about hard [00:11:00] work, because at no point was I not giving it my 100%, and then some. So much that can impact is something else. And so for me, it's really about just like, arming people with what you need to know in order to like, really be in it for the long haul.[00:11:15]
many people that I know that [:Like those stories are beautiful and are trapped and lost. So I think we all have to commit to uplifting each other, encouraging each other, even in the face of failure.[00:11:45]
ok, Like, you can't help but [:And for me, like, success meant largely, like, [00:12:15] writing a book that would appeal to people who I didn't even know who I was writing for. For critics at the New York Times, for critics at NPR, like, I just wanted a big career, and You know, it's kind of crazy because I ended up with those things writing [00:12:30] the book that is the most like me.
stile to like the stories of [:And I think like I wrote versions of this book and my previous book that should have been published. that should have made it out into the world. Well, like there's a part of me too that's like, but for all that [00:13:00] suffering on all of that, like I ended up in a place where this book is the best book I could bring out into the world.
And I'm grateful for that.
really hard for a lot of us. [:But how did you start to transition your mindset around it? I mean, for
nt when I had been out of my [:And I listened, because it's someone that I really respect. But, you know, in that moment I was also not listening to myself because I am someone who thrives in community. I am [00:14:15] someone who's really inspired by other people. And I'm a little competitive. So whenever I see someone doing something that kicks ass and is brilliant, like I'm also like, I could do better.
of me too that has like that [:And so I think that being in isolation, which I think could work for some people, that, like, they will be more insular or find more of value, to say to the world, from, like, [00:15:00] looking within. My engagement is always with community and the biggest questions I have about the self which are like explored in my book are really in relation to community and and expectations and obligations and so that was like a big [00:15:15] turning point for me was like being like No, I need to be around people.
I get to teach and I get to [:So now I feel like, like really inspired all the time because I feel like I'm around people who are [00:15:45] brilliant and they make me want to be better.
Aransas: Or change the measure. Maybe that's it.
f us, I think we go into it. [:And I don't know that many of us take stock of who we are and our shifting priorities, our shifting talents and skills. As we progress and as we grow older. And so for me, I think like that, what happened in my life is that it [00:16:30] really made me re evaluate who I was. And why I was in it for. Like, why do I want to write books?
And so like if you're doing [:Aransas: becomes really, you know, like, part of gaining that goal.
at. I felt that it happened, [:Cleyvis: I think for most [00:17:30] people who create, there's this kind of tug where like, one day you wake up and you feel lost in the, in the work and you don't know if it's any good. You know, and then other times you revise or you go back [00:17:45] into it, you become clear about what you want to do, and then you can see it sparkle.
of sharing the work is also [:Aransas: read what I'm
Cleyvis: writing and to think it's good.
also matters to me that the [:But Can you engage with my work and have a reaction
Aransas: to it?
positive or not, Right, and [:Aransas: And then also being really clear about
ow, I think that anybody can [:You know what I mean? Like, I think that there's, there's a moment in our lives and I hope that for all of us, we have that moment where. We wake up, and we're like, it doesn't mean that you're not trying to do your best by your family, but that like, you shouldn't be [00:19:30] dehumanized in the process of helping others.
u back. That's it. That's it.[:I mean, and I feel like I did it with the book, you know, so there's like a satisfaction I get from I mean, and I feel like I did it with the book, you know, so there's like a satisfaction I get from And I get [00:20:00] letters and like through Instagram I get DMs from people and these letters are so beautiful and they're not Always from what I expect, like this older man who's like in his 70s sent me a letter.
ook was meant for me because [:But I feel like sometimes, you know, we, we get like into these kind of narrow lanes. Like, yes, I was inspired by like my community, my culture, my own family, the women in my family. [00:20:45] Um, but I think that there's something like about being true to like our singularity that then speaks to the world. And it speaks to like all of us who are children of
Aransas: complicated people.
ll of us, yeah. This moment, [:Cleyvis: that you needed to [00:21:15] re center. No, because I'm a planner and I type A, so blowing up my life meant coming up with a five year plan.
Aransas: I was like, well [:Cleyvis: need some financial stability.
on to quit my full time job. [:So I'm very excited for like the conversation we're gonna have later about, um, [00:22:00] so money makes me really anxious. And I was like, so I know that I wasn't the kind of person that could just like quit my job, and like, I have real responsibilities, you know? so the big shift that happened in my life, Is that I told my husband [00:22:15] writing is going to become a priority in my life And i'm going to shift resources to, to invest in myself.
you should be a gravy train [:It was a very important writing retreat and my [00:23:00] husband was like, really Portugal? I was like, yes, Portugal. And you know, I went to Vermont and I went to like Massachusetts, like, you know, then I activated people in my life because I had been hiding. I had been ashamed and I had been hiding because I felt [00:23:15] like a fool.
te me for a scholarship? Can [:And everybody came through for me. And so, you know, it was another two years of me, like, going to workshops, take, you know, joining writing groups, [00:23:45] Trying for the agents I wanted and getting rejected before I had the representation I needed. And then it was another year before we sold the book. So, I mean, at no point was it like, You know, the, I blew up my life and it was a big payoff.
Like, I think, you know, one [:Oh, no, like, you need a first book that's successful for, like, a publisher to take a chance on a book that is unfinished. And I don't know that that will happen again. I hope so. But, you know, there's a way in which I [00:24:30] come at my work now as a writer, where I'm like, oh, it's not gonna get easier.
ll yes. Like, anytime that I [:For people who like that, you know? But [00:25:00] it's like, I'm proud of what I've done and I'm ready to do the next thing, but I'm never going to stop advocating for that book because I think that book had to work so hard to be in the world, you know, like our creations want to be born. And sometimes we like our [00:25:15] ego and and our fear get in the way of like this beautiful thing that should be
Aransas: in the world.
Cleyvis: And so now I'm hoping to like do more of that, like let that bold, beautiful thing that's inside me live outside of me.
s like we all need to mother [:Cleyvis: be gentle,
Aransas: right? I do.
I just say like really loving stuff to myself in the middle of the night now. Be gentle. Yeah. That's
beautiful. I'm glad you said [:I, I would be like, you're not [00:26:00] working hard enough. Like something is wrong with you. The writing is not perfect enough. Like what, why are you falling down? And I'm still hard on myself because I have like really high expectations, but like you, I feel like more often than not, I'm just kind of like, [00:26:15] you're sexy.
. Like, when we're trying to [:And it's so hard to be truthful. And I feel like just being [00:26:45] gentler with myself, I think, is giving me the armor that I need to, like, Stay awake and present to like recognize the horrors we're living through and still try to make something beautiful
Aransas: that
Cleyvis: also reflects the horrors and the beauty. We are
Aransas: all gonna need [:I'm looking at all my friends who are writers especially and I'm like, we needed this, right? And we're gonna just remember this moment. And when we [00:27:15] feel afraid, when we
ory, we're going to be like, [:Cleyvis: That [00:27:45] I mean, that would be great. Tag me!
