Alison Mariella Désir is Rewriting the History of Running

TUP EP 075

Alison: [: 00:00:00

music: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast, where we talk to inspiring women who, as I was just sharing with today's guests, are incredibly resourceful and creative at solving problems. We were talking about this because today's guest, [00:00:30] uh, had to record outside because of some surprise construction in the house.

see problems and challenges [: 00:00:45

Uh, someone I've followed for a long time. Her name is Alison Mariella Désir. She's the author of Running Wild Black, the TV host and producer of the award winning show Out and Back, with Alison Mariella Désir, which is so [00:01:15] good. And even if you've cut the chord, you can watch it online. And she's also the host of Out and Back's companion podcast.

try Diversity Coalition. The [: 00:01:30

She was named. One of the power women by women's running magazine. She was also named one of the most influential African Americans aged 25 to 45 by the route 100. She's designed a [00:02:00] clothing collection with Wazelle, created the first ever satin lined running cap made with black women's hair needs in mind.

on the board for and mother [: 00:02:15

So the fact that you found time and a schedule pack with [00:02:30] all of that to talk to us just means so much, Alison. I'm really excited to meet you. Thank you for being here.

how to make things work, to [: 00:02:45

So I

's like for you to hear this [: 00:03:00

Alison: Yeah, it's, I mean, I was, Laughing hearing it only because it makes me start to [00:03:15] wonder.

ally, so i'm i'm planning for: 2025

[00:03:45] And I set myself up with my network, with folks around me, family, people who are interested in supporting me to make it happen, right? Like truly none of it happens. None of the things I do happen alone. And I am really good at, [00:04:00] Getting people excited about things so I end up co founding and founding lots of things that don't exist or That are improvements on something that has existed because I share what could be possible and really rally people around the idea

music: [: 00:04:15

And then let's put all the pebbles [00:04:30] around those rocks. And it is people like you that are so well positioned for this sort of role. But when I read your book, I was struck by the fact that. Like, it sounded like you had played leadership roles in your [00:04:45] life and as a student, as a young, young woman. And yet, this was really the place where, as you say, you found your purpose in running.

me to reflect and really see [: 00:05:00

But until I wrote my book, I didn't see this through line that I really have been the same person my whole life, that I've used really a wide array of talent and skills and interests. [00:05:30] And I've brought those things together. And again, in writing my book, that's when I realized, like when I was younger, I thought that maybe that meant that I didn't have any focus and that I wouldn't be successful because I, I couldn't find a job because I didn't like one thing.

I didn't know I [: 00:05:45

We, we get this one life and hopefully we're able to pursue as many [00:06:15] interests as we can. And. Not all of that has to be paid or part of a formal economy, but that's to me, what's really meaningful in my life.

th too. I felt like I had no [: 00:06:30

And I can kind of relate to anyone and feel like, Oh, that's interesting. Cause like you, I'm enthusiastic. [00:06:45] Excited by different experiences. And so I really felt like that was a shortcoming for a lot of my life and that I needed to like fit into some tidy box,

ially because it's gendered. [: 00:07:00

And that I talk too much. I was always, you know, getting in other people's business. I was, and I realized [00:07:15] that all of those qualities are, What make me the amazing person that I love that i'm a community organizer that i'm concerned for people that i'm like I see something that happening that I don't think is right that I step in right but the way that those things [00:07:30] are named in school systems or When people are young really can do harm to your future self.

s. And I think you have done [: 00:07:45

I should go back and like, suck it up and accept that that's not going to [00:08:30] exist. So will you tell the story of starting Harlem Run Club?

the way that I do things. So [: 00:08:45

Back in the day, social media was like a very young thing. We could make flyers on social media, but there was no Canva. Flyers were terrible, but I put together some flyers [00:09:00] for social media announcing the first run. I also made like physical postcards and I put them all around town. I had even started visiting other running clubs to let them know that I was starting this thing.

n November and nobody showed [: 00:09:15

I had to remind myself that what I was [00:09:45] doing was important and I was passionate about it and that Running was is also an intimidating scary thing and so maybe there were people out there who wanted to join but who hadn't yet developed the courage or Wanted to know if I was serious about it [00:10:00] or if they wouldn't be left behind, right?

Washington for three years. [: 00:10:15

It has nothing to do with my identity or most people don't even know me anymore at this point, but the [00:10:30] community was built and the values continue to shape what that movement looks like. And it's,

music: it's thriving. One

Alison: of

I realized this is not about [: 00:10:45

It's about the community that I'm trying to create. And yes, it was for you in large part, but it was also for these people that you envisioned creating greater access to running for and developing this sense of community. And I [00:11:00] think so often where we get sidelined is in. the fear of not enoughness, not cool, not right.

ol. And you were like, we're [: 00:11:15

Alison: Right. I love that. And it was a big lesson on ego. Actually, initially the group was called powdered feet run club because my nickname is powdered feet, which describes somebody who's so active.

You [: 00:11:30

They were invested in this thing that was being built. That lesson continues to come up in my mind around, you know, taking feedback from people, taking feedback about things that I've [00:12:00] built or I'm working on. Like, I have to remove my own pain or my own embarrassment or shame from what the feedback is, right?

Like, this person is telling me what they've experienced and whether I agree or not, whether I like it or

music: [: 00:12:15

Alison: of course, love her the best.

When she was on

bout how her love of running [: 00:12:45

Alison: It's a really [00:13:15] great question. So I will say that running after giving birth to my son looked very different than how it did before. And running was at one point my [00:13:30] everything, right? It was the movement form that I connected to most. It was the thing that gave me community, family, mental health. And I would say that since having my son and also since moving to to Washington.

e thankfully I found so many [: 00:13:45

Like I have to PR or, and I felt that especially after giving birth to my son, I was looking at all these mommy bloggers and they were getting back in shape, like six weeks postpartum. And I was like, what, or even competitive athletes, elite athletes who go back [00:14:15] and win medals, gold within a year of giving birth.

ide of that anyway, tangent, [: 00:14:30

And [00:14:45] really what I find is What I, what was so powerful for me about running was moving my body and being outside. And so long as I'm doing that, I feel the really positive impact in my life. So [00:15:00] I'm running a marathon this year. I'm running every woman's marathon in November, and then I'm attempting my first hundred K race.

at I'm running, I'm doing it [: 00:15:15

music: It's like very specific goals and mindsets for each of these races and different intentions for what you [00:15:45] want. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I

movement is not. validation [: 00:16:00

music: everybody gets that. I mean, there is the competition piece.

ness, especially in running. [: 00:16:15

Alison: I do relate a lot of it again to leaving New York because I'll say that being in New No matter what industry you're in, there is so much pressure to be the best at that thing, to be doing [00:16:45] it when others are sleeping, to be hustling nonstop, and part of my move was realizing that that energy was no longer serving me.

I'm more evolved because I'm [: 00:17:00

And [00:17:15] it just allows me to be more expansive, I think.

rsity. And I know throughout [: 00:17:30

Can you talk a little about

solutely. I have always been [: 00:17:45

The story is always told from the story of those in power, those Who make the rules and the rest of [00:18:15] us are sort of on the margins seeing seeming like victims And the same is true in the history of running, right? There's one particular story that's told about running and it starts with bill bowerman And hayward field and the creation of nike [00:18:30] and And that is one story, but that's not the only story and not the full story.

rk Pioneer Club. And without [: 00:18:45

It was integrated before [00:19:00] baseball was integrated and it was an opportunity for people like Ted Corbett, who's the father of long distance running, to really explore his talent and become one of the best and stories like him. Stories like Marilyn Bevins, [00:19:15] who is. alive and a contemporary of Catherine Switzer.

And what often happens is it [: 00:19:30

Like history is, is really all of our recollections and memories put in a narrative. And so in the book, I try to expand that narrative. Yeah. [00:19:45] And show just how central black people were to creating this sport My hope is that the more black people that know that they will see themselves in the sport They'll know that long distance running is for them and we helped create

music: it That's so [: 00:20:00

I mean i've run past I ran past ted corbett statue for You probably 15 years before I knew he was a black man, right? [00:20:15] He was just the little guy I ran past all the time, right? Like I knew nothing about him. I ran his race, but I didn't know how significant he, I knew he was a coach. Like I, I mean, I had a couple of, but not, it was not, none of the facts were about his race [00:20:30] or about his pioneering.

the significance and really [: 00:20:45

I mean, that's really what life is. It's about your perspective growing, knowing [00:21:00] more and doing better rather than knowing more and still insisting that what you know is the only thing.

music: All goes back to learning again, doesn't it? Being open to receiving that feedback. Exactly. And being willing to change.

[: 00:21:15

Alison: I really see that as the root of so many struggles that we have right now. Whether it's around all these anti trans laws or anything, really, it's that people in power are unwilling to accept truths that [00:21:30] conflict with their beliefs, right? It's like, you believe that this thing is wrong, and other people are telling you it's not wrong, it's just different.

t that new information. It's [: 00:21:45

music: I'm [00:22:00] encouraged. It's true because rage without action is just suffering.

Alison: Exactly, exactly, exactly. Now we sound like the old people, but we are.

music: But it's true. [: 00:22:15

You talk about signals of progress and certainly when Gordon Baculis was on this show, if you know her, she's the editorial director for Roadrunners. Absolutely. I love her. Love her. Such an [00:22:45] amazing woman. She really emphasized, something that you emphasize in your book as well, that this idea that running is super accessible and everyone can do it, is really just, a [00:23:00] fallacy.

I think so much of your work [: 00:23:15

Alison: Yeah. And, you know, as we're talking and I'm so I'm outside and it is a beautiful day, but it's heating up and I'm thinking it makes me think about the impact of climate and the impact of capitalism.

Right. And the [: 00:23:30

I mean, our time is, is shortening, right? Like the idea I'm reading stories about folks who are training for the Olympics and, um, we're training, training through wildfire season and who are training through extreme heat, extreme [00:24:00] dryness or extreme rain, tornadoes. So if we don't stop purely for selfish reasons, right, if we don't start rethinking what all of these obstacles are and what our contributions are to those obstacles, I mean, [00:24:15] we're not going to be able to do the things we love, you know, and part of what I talk about my book also is how I believe that runners and people in movement spaces.

lt stuff for long periods of [: 00:24:30

And it's, it's my hope that through my work. Folks start to feel inspired and realize just how much power we have when we take collective action.

rsity group was forming with [: 00:25:00

Yes. [00:25:15]

bout, you know, he, he has a [: 00:25:30

You know, you can't be successful. And so for a lot of white [00:25:45] folks or people with privilege who have never been in situations where there's friction, if you don't have the endurance for that friction, then you give up, say it's impossible, move on with something else. Right. So a lot of it is like learning to sit in that place of discomfort [00:26:00] and just recognizing that it's not forever.

And that. There's actually movement happening, even if you sometimes feel stuck.

reas of challenge. Amen. But [: 00:26:15

Alison: Exactly. Sometimes I, when I think about running another marathon, I'm like, can I really? I'm [00:26:30] like, yes, I've done it before. My body knows. Yes.

ks that are good and running [: 00:26:45

while running. I don't know if you've had experiences of crying while running. It's very, it like hurts my throat. Anyway, so I have kind of a negative association with it from crying, but there's that [00:27:00] period. And there's that moment in the book where you talk about your march to Washington, DC. And, arriving there and talking about hopelessness and [00:27:15] finding meaning.

ent who felt that. Hopeless, [: 00:27:30

Like we're made to feel as though we have no power So that way people in power can continue to do whatever they want and I'll say this is [00:27:45] particularly true at the local level where Oftentimes, I mean, myself included, we feel like, eh, does it matter? And those are the people who are building the roads, deciding curriculum at schools, like literally all of the things that impact anyway.

[: 00:28:00

as protests. And it was an amazing experience. We ran over 250 miles in a relay. [00:28:30] Thousands of people met us along the course. We raised over 150, 000 to Planned Parenthood.

music: So with everything you're doing right now, what are you most excited by?

Alison: It's

music: hard to say

ne thing that I'm very, very [: 00:28:45

One thing that I'm very excited about and that is, is unique, is this marathon that I mentioned that's coming up every woman's marathon that is sold out myself, Catherine Switzer, Dina Castor, Des Lyndon. [00:29:00] We're all championing the race and helping to build the experience. And for me, I'm, I'm really excited, like I said, to run with all of these other women, but I'm also really excited about what the possibilities mean for the industry.

a marathon. There's no other [: 00:29:15

The experience going to be like, and there's a lot of intentionality about what this experience is going to be, whether it's the course time limits to the location [00:29:45] to the kind of opportunities that are at the expo. And that to me is really exciting because it's, it's showing the industry. Well, if you center the experience of women and them, then we'll show up.

experiences that we want to [: 00:30:00

music: It's so exciting and it's such a full circle moment [00:30:15] for Catherine, I'm sure.

Alison: Yes.

music: And the Avon races that she helped to champion.

y not. She didn't think this [: 00:30:30

And I imagine that she must be so proud. One

was really moved by in your [: 00:30:45

Alison: So something that I heard a long time ago, I don't know where I heard it, that when you're looking to create. a culture and a community. The idea is whether [00:31:15] you are intentional or not, a culture is being created. And that really struck me because I thought about situations that I've been in, whether they were at work, whether they were at things that I did, where it didn't seem like people were actively trying to create a space where [00:31:30] people were rude or disinterested or dishonest, uh, whether intentional or not.

hat I do could have a ripple [: 00:31:45

lived experience, but you have to believe them [00:32:00] and you have to do as much as you can to accommodate them. And accommodate isn't really the right word. That sounds as if it's like a chore. Nikki Hiltz. I don't know what, if I said their name correctly, but they're the first, uh, first non [00:32:15] binary person to compete for the Olympics and they're running the, 1500, I want to say, but they said that often people say, like, I just, I just don't understand.

. You just have to allow me. [: 00:32:30

[00:32:45] Nothing is done alone. And I try to surround myself with people who are different from me, who. look different, who have different lived experiences, who see things differently. And while that means that there's a lot of friction and oftentimes I'm like, uh, we'll just, [00:33:00] we'll just like be on the same page.

o something, there are other [: 00:33:15

Like every time somebody shows up to Harlem Run, there's opening words around what our community is [00:33:30] about. What sort of the norms are because you can't assume when new people come into the group You can't assume that they know what you're about your norms and values have to be reinforced Not just in spoken ways, but also in ways [00:33:45] of how do you post on social media, right?

people to come move with us [: 00:34:00

So yeah making sure that your values are then actually clear in other Messages

t you put out into the world [: 00:34:15

And because their, their messaging on all their windows and doors said, Everybody is welcome here. And I went in and I felt so shamed. And [00:34:45] so uncomfortable and so unaccepted. So then I was like, well, I want to cancel. I don't want to be a part of this and they wouldn't let me cancel anyway. So I got to know my husband because it wasn't exactly how we met, but it's how I got to know him.

He sent one of his [: 00:35:00

Alison: I mean, that's exactly it. Like you can't say this is a place for everybody. And then what's what's on social media [00:35:15] is like people with a certain aesthetic of a body or you say it's for everybody and then somebody shows up and the person gets left behind, right?

Like do mistakes happen? Yes. Again, this is where you incorporate feedback.

at fulfillment and that it's [: 00:35:30

Every guest is nominated by another guest or a listener as a woman who inspires her. And I wondered if you wanted to nominate anyone for the show. So I knew

because I'm like, oh my god, [: 00:36:00

She's a black woman and she's the founder of this organization called Edge Outdoors [00:36:15] and she's all about getting women of color and non binary and femme into snowsports. So she does snowboarding, skiing, and she's just so passionate about the work that [00:36:30] she does, mostly because she didn't grow up having those experiences.

. But if you don't have that [: 00:36:45

She's fun. She's cool. And she is the reason why I now love snow sports.

to talk to her. And it's so [: 00:37:00

Exactly. Well, Alison Mariella Désir, you have certainly done that with your life, and I can't wait to see what you continue to do, and I'm really glad you're raising a kid who [00:37:30] is growing up with these values and with this view of what a mother is able to do. and the impact she's able to have. I am so grateful for your time and for you.

ou for being here. Thank you [: 00:37:45

It'll really help us connect with more uplifters, and it'll [00:38:15] ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mm,

perplexing, though you find [: 00:38:30

With that all hindsight, bring the sun to twilight. [00:38:45] Lift you up.

up, ball. Lift you up. Whoa. [: 00:39:00

Lift you up.

[: 00:39:15